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That you experience significant physical withdrawal symptoms from marijuana certainty calls into question the street wisdom that pot isn’t (physically) addictin
by hsienmaneja 8y ago
That you experience significant physical withdrawal symptoms from marijuana certainty calls into question the street wisdom that pot isn’t (physically) addicting.
- Baeocystin 8y agoThere is one important difference: withdrawal from something like alcohol can actually kill you. Withdrawal from marijuana makes you an irritable asshole for a week or two. The hardest part is understanding and coping with the issue that drives the user to use marijuana so heavily in the first place. If it can be understood what need the marijuana use is providing for, changing use patterns becomes possible.
- hsienmaneja 8y agoPot destroys lives in part by being so apparently benign.
- Baeocystin 8y agoWhatever problems drive a person to use pot as a crutch are the source issue. Pot abuse itself (or any maladaptive behavior) is best thought of as a symptom, not a cause.
- hsienmaneja 8y agoIf someone is self medicating with pot, and pot is making their lives worse (which is the case for some users), the pot is a problem in and of itself. Drug culture itself is riddled with such booby traps. Fallaious street wisdom backed by egos and peer pressure are powerful tools to indoctrinate a child into an unexpected lifetime of addiction to substances such as pot.
- Baeocystin 8y ago>Fallaious street wisdom backed by egos and peer pressure That's what I am trying to get at- problems stem from earlier sources. Whether someone eventually gets hooked on something is a consequence of earlier failure. Whatever drug/habit is ultimately picked up in the aftermath is a genuine negative, which will have its own particulars. But it is not the initial causative agent. This is an important distinction to make, because otherwise we're just rearranging deck chairs instead of managing the fundamental issue. To expand context, when considering appropriate drug policy at a governmental level I think Portugal's experience is important to study: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radic...
- hsienmaneja 8y agoNo, drug use isn’t consistently picked up in the aftermath of disaster. It’s often near the beginning, and lubricates destructive behavior, even pot. Pot absolutely catalyzes issues in people’s lives. Many would be far better off not using it at all.
- Baeocystin 8y ago>It’s often near the beginning, and lubricates destructive behavior, even pot I think we are talking past each other. I fully agree that many would be better off never using anything at all. My point is that by the time someone gets to the point where drugs/gambling/addiction can act as a destructive catalyst, they're already well on their way to a negative future due to earlier causes.
- hsienmaneja 8y agoA child with an undeveloped mind gets stoned and is profoundly impacted by it. The act of getting into pot in the first place is the divergent event that led to the deteriorated life path in some cases. The pot use itself is a root cause for the child, and they would have been better off never having got into it at all. As for destructive catalysts, no, not all people are well on their way to a negative future when they take up such habits. The drugs/gambling etc are the destructive behaviors that should be avoided altogether or stopped as a priority. Considering the well documented effects of high grade pot, it’s fairly easy to see that a normal child can be profoundly impacted by pot. Their entire lives get off track after getting into weed. So, no, not all people that mess up their lives on pot were well on their way to a negative future.
- DanBC 8y agoThis just isn't true. Please stop denying that cannabis itself cannot ever be a cause of severe harm. I strongly support legalisation, but for that to happen we must accept that some cannabis users are going to be caused harm.
- Baeocystin 8y agoI did not claim that cannabis doesn't have the ability to cause harm, nor would I. My point is only that drug abuse should be taken as a symptom of a deeper cause.
- lightbyte 8y ago>withdrawal from opiates ... can actually kill you Opioid withdrawal is actually not fatal at all barring potential dehydration from excessive diarrhea/vomiting.
- Baeocystin 8y agoI edited that out. Apparently most opiate related deaths during withdrawal are due to a person wanting 'one last hit', but choosing a dose that they no longer have the tolerance for.
- bonesss 8y agoA potent argument for legalization of opiates, IMO. Something as simple as concentration percentages on packaging, as we have with booze, and smart usage pamphlets could save a lot of lives.
- Baeocystin 8y agoI don't disagree. I think Portugal's experiment has proven that decriminalization is the best path forward pretty conclusively.
- mimimihaha 8y agoThis is a genuine question but legalization but still making kind of difficult to get or just all out legalization and selling it wherever?
- Baeocystin 8y agoLegalization along the lines of what we're currently doing with alcohol and tobacco.
- zyxwvu 8y agoMarijuana abused to self medicate is frankly cheaper than paying for mental health medication and therapy. It's also fast acting and has only minor negative side effects as opposed to taking several weeks to take effect and for any negative side effects (these can be rather bothersome or bad) to go away. Not to mention that's if that particular medication works for you. Going through several types, change in doses, etc can go on for a year or more easily. In my experience however, withdrawal only takes a few days, I don't recall being any more irritable than before except that marijuana makes me less prone to irritations to begin with, and the thing that's the worst is the boredom. It's what do you do with your time? Work can keep you occupied and busy, but at home the activities you are likely going to do you did with marijuana. Video games and television/movies are harder to 'feel' interested in. Eating high is just really enjoyable. And trying to sleep is difficult especially when you know you could just smoke some pot and drift off instead of being too bored and restless to sleep.
- RickS 8y ago>Marijuana abused to self medicate is frankly cheaper than paying for mental health medication and therapy. This implies that self medication has an outcome comparable to paying for mental health medication and therapy. I would assert that it does not.
- kimbojimbo33 8y agoWhat do you think of Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome?
- trentlott 8y agoThat's why we differentiate between addiction and dependence. Alcohol dependence prevents cold turkey for some people.
- fhood 8y agoSure, but nearly anything that causes a chemical change can be physically addicting right? Once your brain starts equalizing for whatever imbalances are being created.
- beat 8y agoBy that definition, hydration is addiction. Refined carbohydrates (sugar, flour) are definitely addictive. If you have the normal modern diet full of sugar and flour and you quit them cold turkey, you will be sick and miserable for a few days, while your body adjusts. And if you quit carbs enough to go into ketosis, and then "cheat", you'll be right back on the insulin-spike bandwagon. (This is not to be construed as an argument in favor of keto diets, or against carbs!) And unlike water, your body does not need refined sugar or grains. You can live just fine on meats and vegetables.
- chimeracoder 8y ago> certainty calls into question the street wisdom that pot isn’t (physically) addicting. This isn't "street wisdom"; there's a massive body of clinical research that's gone into marijuana and investigating its effects on the body and brain. Marijuana is one of the most-studied drugs in existence, far more so than most prescription medication on the market.
- hsienmaneja 8y agoActually, the notion that pot isn’t addictive is the street wisdom, or was when I was growing up. This is in contradiction to the reality.
- chimeracoder 8y ago> Actually, the notion that pot isn’t addictive is the street wisdom, or was when I was growing up. This is in contradiction to the reality. No, it's not in contradiction to reality; it's the results of clinical research. To the extent that "addiction" is a relevant term in colloquial use (it's neither a DSM-IV diagnostic criterion nor a formal pharmacological term), marijuana is not known to induce practically significant symptoms of physical dependence.
- hsienmaneja 8y agoCopy that. Getting into semantics, from the descriptions here, one could describe the withdrawal symptoms to be physically/practically significant for some cowards.
- JeremyBanks 8y agoSuch research is probably improperly generalized or otherwise misinterpreted. I’ve known lots of people who smoked too much weed, and “withdrawal” symptoms were pretty consistent among people who really smoked to excess (multiple grams per day). Judging from this and similar threads, many people will attest to the same. It’s not plausible to me that this is an illusion.
- boomboomsubban 8y agoOr it's a combination of mental addiction and the placebo effect. The ritual has become such an important part of their life, that when they remove it their anxiety causes a physical reaction based on their concept of withdrawl.
- badloginagain 8y agoI read that the use of marijuana actually inhibits dreams, and that people who quit temporarily experience intense dreams.
- boomboomsubban 8y agoYes. This isn't physical addiction. It can cause a mental addiction if you use it for that purpose, and the anxiety over going without can keep you awake. You see it in people with PTSD. edit Curious why people are objecting to this as I have personal experience in the area. Vivid dreams are common any time you go without dreaming for a while, it's not a sign of a physical addiction.
- DanBC 8y agoBecause you're pushing a distinction (physical vs psychological addiction) that is mostly irrelevant but also untrue. There are many drugs that aren't strongly physically addictive, but most people recognise that the misuse of those drugs can cause severe harm. Cannabis should be in this category.
- jonhendry18 8y agoMisuse of Tylenol (acetaminophen) can cause severe harm. Doesn't mean it's addictive.
- robdachshund 8y agoThis is BS. Define the "severe harm" or stop making this argument. There are a lot of people here speaking on behalf of smokers and people with chronic illnesses and disorders. I happen to fall in both categories and self medicate. I can and do stop smoking so the time. It is not physically addictive, and you can become mentally addicted to anything that gives you a dopamine release, like eating junk food. I have never had "withdrawals," nor do I recognize weed "addiction" as anything other than excess, overindulgence, and a lack of self control. People claiming that they are addicted to weed are simply looking to blame a bad habit for their lack of self control. The only severe harm you can get from smoking too much weed is to your wallet.
- hutzlibu 8y agoIt is not, "only" psychological addictive. But since our mind controls our body, the symptoms can be indeed severe, if the use, or abuse, like in this case, is extreme. Smoking 3g a day is the rough equivavlent of constantly drinking wodka instead of water.
- programmarchy 8y agoPot does produce physical changes in the brain, though. Heavy pot usage can dramatically increase the amount of anandamide receptors in the brain, which regulate hunger, motivation, pleasure and mood among other things. So quitting and having a neurotransmitter deficit until the brain returns to homeostasis causes hormonal and physical effects on the body... How is that “only” psychological?
- trentlott 8y agoBecause organs won't start shutting down without it.
- kimbojimbo33 8y agoCannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome seems to not be that well known. CHS appears to suggest that for certain segments of the population there is a physical component to marijuana addiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndro...