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That is one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard. Apple (or any other company) can’t refuse the law of the land. Had they refused, the Chinese government woul

by __sr__ 8y ago

That is one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard. Apple (or any other company) can’t refuse the law of the land. Had they refused, the Chinese government would simply have told them to pack their bags. Someone else would have replaced Apple and the users would still be in the same position. Apple can go against prevalent business practices, other companies etc, but they can’t go against the law. And they shouldn’t even try! Do you really want a corporation having enough power to go against the law? If you live in a country where someone (including the government) can legally force you to forego your privacy, there is literally nothing you can do - except try and get the laws changed - something you may not have the power to do - even in a democracy. The difference between Apple and Google is that Google is doing things which may not be desirable despite no law compelling them to. If the US government (or any other government) manages to pass a law which says that Apple must turn over all the user data they have - or that they must collect certain types of data, there is nothing Apple can do other than comply - or shut shop. The sole reason other Apple can resist other countries’ governments is because no one has passed laws similar to China yet. There are people who resist the passage of such laws - something that is not the case with China. Apple (or any corporation) is not going to war with a nation state over the rights of the said nation state.

bitmapbrother 8y ago
Your defense of Apple's cooperation with the Chinese government is repugnant. Apple could have easily decided not to open data centers in China if they really valued the privacy of their Chinese users. Tim Cook said that privacy is a human right. Apparently, Tim Cook doesn't believe Chinese citizens deserve privacy because they happily hand over all of their data to the Chinese government. It's quite clear that that the additional revenue generated by the Chinese App store and iCloud services far exceeds the human rights of their users. >The difference between Apple and Google is that Google is doing things which may not be desirable despite no law compelling them to. No, the difference between Apple and Google is that Google decided to leave China rather than cooperate with the government. >If the US government (or any other government) manages to pass a law which says that Apple must turn over all the user data they have - or that they must collect certain types of data, there is nothing Apple can do other than comply - or shut shop. Shut shop? You mean like how Google shut shop?
- mitchty 8y ago
  They did, and they're back in China now. https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/30/google-is-quietly-formulating-a-new-strategy-for-china/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/30/google-is-quietly-formulat... There is a simple fact here you seem to be ignoring. If you want to do business in China, you follow Chinese laws. If you have issues with China's human rights, you should encourage your local government to take up that issue. Your post reads like a bunch of raw emotion and statements like "Tim Cook doesn't believe" that which are just impossible for anyone BUT Tim Cook to know. Relying upon supposition of what you think a person thinks, and extending that to a company to arrive at a conclusion of: money > human rights is... pretty sad as arguments go.
  - bitmapbrother 8y ago
    I must have missed the part where Google is letting state run Chinese companies run their data centers and sharing the data with the Chinese government. When that happens then Apple and Google will be on equal footing when it comes to China. >If you have issues with China's human rights, you should encourage your local government to take up that issue. Your post reads like a bunch of raw emotion and statements like "Tim Cook doesn't believe" that which are just impossible for anyone BUT Tim Cook to know. Relying upon supposition of what you think a person thinks, and extending that to a company to arrive at a conclusion of: money > human rights is... pretty sad as arguments go. What's really sad is that Apple's revenue from China is far too lucrative for Tim Cook to really care about human rights and privacy. Tim Cook knows he'd probably be ousted as CEO if he ever tried to exit China.
    - __sr__ 8y ago
      > I must have missed the part where Google is letting state run Chinese companies run their data centers and sharing the data with the Chinese government. When that happens then Apple and Google will be on equal footing when it comes to China. Are you suggesting Google is being allowed to store Chinese citizens’ data on servers outside China? If the servers are within Chinese territory, it doesn’t matter who is hosting them - they are subject to the same laws.

by __sr__ 8y ago

bitmapbrother 8y ago

Your defense of Apple's cooperation with the Chinese government is repugnant. Apple could have easily decided not to open data centers in China if they really valued the privacy of their Chinese users. Tim Cook said that privacy is a human right. Apparently, Tim Cook doesn't believe Chinese citizens deserve privacy because they happily hand over all of their data to the Chinese government. It's quite clear that that the additional revenue generated by the Chinese App store and iCloud services far exceeds the human rights of their users. >The difference between Apple and Google is that Google is doing things which may not be desirable despite no law compelling them to. No, the difference between Apple and Google is that Google decided to leave China rather than cooperate with the government. >If the US government (or any other government) manages to pass a law which says that Apple must turn over all the user data they have - or that they must collect certain types of data, there is nothing Apple can do other than comply - or shut shop. Shut shop? You mean like how Google shut shop?

mitchty 8y ago
They did, and they're back in China now. https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/30/google-is-quietly-formulating-a-new-strategy-for-china/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/30/google-is-quietly-formulat... There is a simple fact here you seem to be ignoring. If you want to do business in China, you follow Chinese laws. If you have issues with China's human rights, you should encourage your local government to take up that issue. Your post reads like a bunch of raw emotion and statements like "Tim Cook doesn't believe" that which are just impossible for anyone BUT Tim Cook to know. Relying upon supposition of what you think a person thinks, and extending that to a company to arrive at a conclusion of: money > human rights is... pretty sad as arguments go.
- bitmapbrother 8y ago
  I must have missed the part where Google is letting state run Chinese companies run their data centers and sharing the data with the Chinese government. When that happens then Apple and Google will be on equal footing when it comes to China. >If you have issues with China's human rights, you should encourage your local government to take up that issue. Your post reads like a bunch of raw emotion and statements like "Tim Cook doesn't believe" that which are just impossible for anyone BUT Tim Cook to know. Relying upon supposition of what you think a person thinks, and extending that to a company to arrive at a conclusion of: money > human rights is... pretty sad as arguments go. What's really sad is that Apple's revenue from China is far too lucrative for Tim Cook to really care about human rights and privacy. Tim Cook knows he'd probably be ousted as CEO if he ever tried to exit China.
  - __sr__ 8y ago
    > I must have missed the part where Google is letting state run Chinese companies run their data centers and sharing the data with the Chinese government. When that happens then Apple and Google will be on equal footing when it comes to China. Are you suggesting Google is being allowed to store Chinese citizens’ data on servers outside China? If the servers are within Chinese territory, it doesn’t matter who is hosting them - they are subject to the same laws.