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This will be the biggest struggle of post-scarcity economies. Some people need to be distracted with the struggle to survive to keep them from destructive thoug

This will be the biggest struggle of post-scarcity economies. Some people need to be distracted with the struggle to survive to keep them from destructive thoughts.

sli 8y ago
It's a bit disingenuous to put today's society in the place of a hypothetical society immediately before post-scarcity (or society before any major societal shift in the far future). They are in no way comparable. Society as it is could not handle post-scarcity, but a huge contributor is the simple fact that post-scarcity is a very long way away.
- konschubert 8y ago
  > post-scarcity is a very long way away I'm surprised that you think that. What would you consider a scarce good in today's society?
  - Regardsyjc 8y ago
    Clean water is still a scarce basic need in many parts of the world and even in some parts of the United States even beyond Flint, Michigan. Many women do not have access to or can afford feminine hygiene products in the world or US. If high speed internet can be considered a good, it's a scarce utility in many parts of the world. I think there's still many basic needs or utilities that are scarce...
    - konschubert 8y ago
      But isn't this more of a distribution problem than a general scarcity problem?
    - opportune 8y ago
      Yes, globally. But many people individually live in a post-scarcity society. A young man with no job who has everything they need or even want (short of large-ticket items like expensive vacations, cars, house, etc.) provided by their parents arguably is living a post-scarcity lifestyle.
      - lccarrasco 8y ago
        You say many but I'd argue for "statistically insignificant".
    - noobermin 8y ago
      In addition, it's been shown many many times that people who have less monetary power are often more stressed, so one shouldn't assume that somehow emotional problems are not connected to economics.
  - macintux 8y ago
    Healthcare and drug treatment are scarce services for many in the U.S.
  - sunstone 8y ago
    Time.
- nl 8y ago
  It’s fairly easy to make a case that Japan is a good example of what the stage before post-scarcity looks like though. Yes there is poverty, but it’s unusual.
  - rwallace 8y ago
    > It’s fairly easy to make a case that Japan is a good example of what the stage before post-scarcity looks like though. Yes there is poverty, but it’s unusual. Is that true? Everything else I've heard about Japan says poverty is common and severe there.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    Maybe if you just stepped out of a time machine from the 1980s. https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/04/04/struggling https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/04/04/struggling > Last year, the Japanese government recorded relative poverty rates of 16%—defined as the share of the population living on less than half the national median income. That is the highest on record. Poverty levels have been growing at a rate of 1.3% a year since the mid-1980s. On the same definition, a study by the OECD in 2011 ranked Japan sixth from the bottom among its 34 mostly rich members. Bookshops advertise a slew of bestsellers on how to survive on an annual income of under ¥2m ($16,700), a poverty line below which millions of Japanese now live.
    - codedokode 8y ago
      > poverty ... defined as the share of the population living on less than half the national median income This is not necessarily poverty, it is just a measure of income inequality. If we read Wikipedia [1]: > In Japan, relative poverty is defined as a state at which the income of a household is at or below half of the median household income ... According to Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), the mean household net-adjusted disposable income for Japan is US$23,458. Half of that is $11,700 and while living on that can be tough, I am not sure if that can be called poverty. Also, there is a minimal wage of 736 yen/hour (in the poorest regions) which is 117760 yen/month or $1063. So if a household has an income of $1000/month it means that one of two people is slacking off instead of working. For comparison, in Estonia minimum monthly wage is 500 Euro (585 USD), in Russia it is $286 in Moscow and Saint-Petersburg and about $150 in other regions. Earning $1000 a month looks like a luxury for most people outside of two largest cities. It is also important to remember that the climate is much warmer in Japan than in Russia so the the life should be cheaper, you don't have to pay for warm clothes and central heating. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Japan

This will be the biggest struggle of post-scarcity economies. Some people need to be distracted with the struggle to survive to keep them from destructive thoughts.

sli 8y ago

It's a bit disingenuous to put today's society in the place of a hypothetical society immediately before post-scarcity (or society before any major societal shift in the far future). They are in no way comparable. Society as it is could not handle post-scarcity, but a huge contributor is the simple fact that post-scarcity is a very long way away.

konschubert 8y ago
> post-scarcity is a very long way away I'm surprised that you think that. What would you consider a scarce good in today's society?
- Regardsyjc 8y ago
  Clean water is still a scarce basic need in many parts of the world and even in some parts of the United States even beyond Flint, Michigan. Many women do not have access to or can afford feminine hygiene products in the world or US. If high speed internet can be considered a good, it's a scarce utility in many parts of the world. I think there's still many basic needs or utilities that are scarce...
  - konschubert 8y ago
    But isn't this more of a distribution problem than a general scarcity problem?
  - opportune 8y ago
    Yes, globally. But many people individually live in a post-scarcity society. A young man with no job who has everything they need or even want (short of large-ticket items like expensive vacations, cars, house, etc.) provided by their parents arguably is living a post-scarcity lifestyle.
    - lccarrasco 8y ago
      You say many but I'd argue for "statistically insignificant".
  - noobermin 8y ago
    In addition, it's been shown many many times that people who have less monetary power are often more stressed, so one shouldn't assume that somehow emotional problems are not connected to economics.
- macintux 8y ago
  Healthcare and drug treatment are scarce services for many in the U.S.
- sunstone 8y ago
  Time.
nl 8y ago
It’s fairly easy to make a case that Japan is a good example of what the stage before post-scarcity looks like though. Yes there is poverty, but it’s unusual.
- rwallace 8y ago
  > It’s fairly easy to make a case that Japan is a good example of what the stage before post-scarcity looks like though. Yes there is poverty, but it’s unusual. Is that true? Everything else I've heard about Japan says poverty is common and severe there.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  Maybe if you just stepped out of a time machine from the 1980s. https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/04/04/struggling https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/04/04/struggling > Last year, the Japanese government recorded relative poverty rates of 16%—defined as the share of the population living on less than half the national median income. That is the highest on record. Poverty levels have been growing at a rate of 1.3% a year since the mid-1980s. On the same definition, a study by the OECD in 2011 ranked Japan sixth from the bottom among its 34 mostly rich members. Bookshops advertise a slew of bestsellers on how to survive on an annual income of under ¥2m ($16,700), a poverty line below which millions of Japanese now live.
  - codedokode 8y ago
    > poverty ... defined as the share of the population living on less than half the national median income This is not necessarily poverty, it is just a measure of income inequality. If we read Wikipedia [1]: > In Japan, relative poverty is defined as a state at which the income of a household is at or below half of the median household income ... According to Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), the mean household net-adjusted disposable income for Japan is US$23,458. Half of that is $11,700 and while living on that can be tough, I am not sure if that can be called poverty. Also, there is a minimal wage of 736 yen/hour (in the poorest regions) which is 117760 yen/month or $1063. So if a household has an income of $1000/month it means that one of two people is slacking off instead of working. For comparison, in Estonia minimum monthly wage is 500 Euro (585 USD), in Russia it is $286 in Moscow and Saint-Petersburg and about $150 in other regions. Earning $1000 a month looks like a luxury for most people outside of two largest cities. It is also important to remember that the climate is much warmer in Japan than in Russia so the the life should be cheaper, you don't have to pay for warm clothes and central heating. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Japan