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Yeah, this sort of thing is commonplace. Suggesting caution is often called out as “blaming the victim”. EDIT: as always, I’d love to hear from the downvoters.

Yeah, this sort of thing is commonplace. Suggesting caution is often called out as “blaming the victim”. EDIT: as always, I’d love to hear from the downvoters. This seems like a pretty uncontroversial observation.

Ensorceled 8y ago
The flip side is also true, many people believe incautious victims of crime got what the deserved. I don’t believe they are the same people but don’t have data to back that up.
watwut 8y ago
Isn't suggesting caution here just polite version of "be silent ot else"?
- weberc2 8y ago
  No. Suggesting caution is not any version of a threat.
JTbane 8y ago
It is pretty ridiculous to suggest caution after the fact, in this case. "Be more careful if you decide to text and drive" makes sense "Be more careful in getting this notorious troll off a blog site" really doesn't
ceejayoz 8y ago
It is blaming the victim - it comes with the logical conclusion of "if you'd been more careful this might not have happened". In some scenarios, it's also effectively saying "make sure someone else is the one that gets raped/attacked/whatever tonight".
- manfredo 8y ago
  Suggesting caution is not automatically saying everyone who didn't take that advice derserves what happened to them. Saying "you should wear your seatbelt" is not the same as "you deserve to get maimed or killed if you don't wear your seatbelt". Similarly, saying "don't put identifiable info on forums" is not the same as saying "if you put PII on a public forum you deserve to get stalked".
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    IMO, you're making the mistake of thinking fault and "deserve" are the same thing. A smoker who gets lung cancer doesn't deserve the pain and suffering, but you can make a good argument they're at least partially at fault for it. "People should dress conservatively so they don't get raped" doesn't say they deserved to get raped, but it does blame them to some extent for what happened by implying some of it is their fault.
    - manfredo 8y ago
      This line of thinking doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny. If I say "wear a helmet when you ride a bike" it is entirely possible that an ensuing accident is entirely the fault of another party (e.g. getting cut off by a car). Nonetheless, the rider's injuries will depend greatly on whether or not the advice was followed. But the fault in either case is entirely that of the driver that caused the accident.
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        I think it's a mistake to compare an accident and an intentional criminal act like that. If you get run down intentionally by someone in a car while biking, and the first thing I say is "well, you should've worn a helmet", you're going to correctly call me a douchebag.
        manfredo 8y ago
        Sure. But pointing to this as an example of why someone should wear a helmet even if they're confident in their riding ability is not in any way shifting blame to the rider. Nobody is actually trying to tell the security expert in this story that he should be more careful - he's dead. People in this thread are pointing out how this story highlights the importance of safe internet usage practices - much akin to how one might point to a car collision as a reason to use a helmet. That is not blaming the victim, that's encouraging others to learn from and hopefully prevent similar situations.
    - seiferteric 8y ago

Ensorceled 8y ago

The flip side is also true, many people believe incautious victims of crime got what the deserved. I don’t believe they are the same people but don’t have data to back that up.

watwut 8y ago

Isn't suggesting caution here just polite version of "be silent ot else"?

weberc2 8y ago
No. Suggesting caution is not any version of a threat.

JTbane 8y ago

It is pretty ridiculous to suggest caution after the fact, in this case. "Be more careful if you decide to text and drive" makes sense "Be more careful in getting this notorious troll off a blog site" really doesn't

ceejayoz 8y ago

It is blaming the victim - it comes with the logical conclusion of "if you'd been more careful this might not have happened". In some scenarios, it's also effectively saying "make sure someone else is the one that gets raped/attacked/whatever tonight".

manfredo 8y ago
Suggesting caution is not automatically saying everyone who didn't take that advice derserves what happened to them. Saying "you should wear your seatbelt" is not the same as "you deserve to get maimed or killed if you don't wear your seatbelt". Similarly, saying "don't put identifiable info on forums" is not the same as saying "if you put PII on a public forum you deserve to get stalked".
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  IMO, you're making the mistake of thinking fault and "deserve" are the same thing. A smoker who gets lung cancer doesn't deserve the pain and suffering, but you can make a good argument they're at least partially at fault for it. "People should dress conservatively so they don't get raped" doesn't say they deserved to get raped, but it does blame them to some extent for what happened by implying some of it is their fault.
  - manfredo 8y ago
    This line of thinking doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny. If I say "wear a helmet when you ride a bike" it is entirely possible that an ensuing accident is entirely the fault of another party (e.g. getting cut off by a car). Nonetheless, the rider's injuries will depend greatly on whether or not the advice was followed. But the fault in either case is entirely that of the driver that caused the accident.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      I think it's a mistake to compare an accident and an intentional criminal act like that. If you get run down intentionally by someone in a car while biking, and the first thing I say is "well, you should've worn a helmet", you're going to correctly call me a douchebag.
      - manfredo 8y ago
        Sure. But pointing to this as an example of why someone should wear a helmet even if they're confident in their riding ability is not in any way shifting blame to the rider. Nobody is actually trying to tell the security expert in this story that he should be more careful - he's dead. People in this thread are pointing out how this story highlights the importance of safe internet usage practices - much akin to how one might point to a car collision as a reason to use a helmet. That is not blaming the victim, that's encouraging others to learn from and hopefully prevent similar situations.
  - seiferteric 8y ago