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There was clearly one murder victim involved in this story, and that's a far more significant crime than "trolling people" or "trolling trolls who troll people"

There was clearly one murder victim involved in this story, and that's a far more significant crime than "trolling people" or "trolling trolls who troll people".

some_account 8y ago
Of course the killer has committed the worst crime, no doubt about that. But I think we are being conditioned into extremely fast blame games sometimes. These things wouldn't happen in a more evolved society. When is society to blame?
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  There's no such thing as society. The world's just a bunch of people.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    There's no such thing as a person. Organic matter's just a bunch of atoms.
    - SamReidHughes 8y ago
      Actually if you're looking for something to blame, people are it. There isn't a society to blame. That's an abstract concept only useful if you want to sabotage your ability to think about stuff.
      - emodendroket 8y ago
        No, you can't think about social dynamics by merely considering people as atoms in a vacuum. Well, you can, but your suppositions will have an attenuated relationship to reality.
        SamReidHughes 8y ago
        The only part of "society" that the guy interacted with were people he interacted with. The person who most directly caused him to murder was the victim. You're not going to be able to look at some abstract generality like "society" and come to some conclusion about why a specific murder happened. It makes just as much sense to blame "biology" for the crime.
        emodendroket 8y ago
        It is an almost willfully blind perspective to pretend like societal mores, practices, beliefs, hell even language, don't exist or are irrelevant. People aren't formed in a vacuum.
        SamReidHughes 8y ago
        Japan has, like, the lowest murder rate. So yeah you're gonna have a hard time tying the crime to "society" except in the most pseudoscientific way.
        emodendroket 8y ago
        Seems like a really shallow analysis.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  Unless I missed something, the victim noticed that the killer was harassing people online, called him a dummy, and complained to Hatena blog to have them shut down his accounts. I just do not see any sense in which it's meaningfully true that they're "both victims." From what I can see here, "Hagex" was basically a lite Brian Krebs.
  - CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
    This sounds like a fair description of the events that unfolded. My first comment (the heavily downvoted one) was written with the assumption that OP was replying only to the headline.

There was clearly one murder victim involved in this story, and that's a far more significant crime than "trolling people" or "trolling trolls who troll people".

some_account 8y ago

Of course the killer has committed the worst crime, no doubt about that. But I think we are being conditioned into extremely fast blame games sometimes. These things wouldn't happen in a more evolved society. When is society to blame?

SamReidHughes 8y ago
There's no such thing as society. The world's just a bunch of people.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  There's no such thing as a person. Organic matter's just a bunch of atoms.
  - SamReidHughes 8y ago
    Actually if you're looking for something to blame, people are it. There isn't a society to blame. That's an abstract concept only useful if you want to sabotage your ability to think about stuff.
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      No, you can't think about social dynamics by merely considering people as atoms in a vacuum. Well, you can, but your suppositions will have an attenuated relationship to reality.
      - SamReidHughes 8y ago
        The only part of "society" that the guy interacted with were people he interacted with. The person who most directly caused him to murder was the victim. You're not going to be able to look at some abstract generality like "society" and come to some conclusion about why a specific murder happened. It makes just as much sense to blame "biology" for the crime.
        emodendroket 8y ago
        It is an almost willfully blind perspective to pretend like societal mores, practices, beliefs, hell even language, don't exist or are irrelevant. People aren't formed in a vacuum.
        SamReidHughes 8y ago
        Japan has, like, the lowest murder rate. So yeah you're gonna have a hard time tying the crime to "society" except in the most pseudoscientific way.
        emodendroket 8y ago
        Seems like a really shallow analysis.
emodendroket 8y ago
Unless I missed something, the victim noticed that the killer was harassing people online, called him a dummy, and complained to Hatena blog to have them shut down his accounts. I just do not see any sense in which it's meaningfully true that they're "both victims." From what I can see here, "Hagex" was basically a lite Brian Krebs.
- CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
  This sounds like a fair description of the events that unfolded. My first comment (the heavily downvoted one) was written with the assumption that OP was replying only to the headline.