12 ms·

Marijuana addiction is real, and rising

115 points by jeffreyrogers 8y ago

ommunist 8y ago
Money addiction is real and all times high. Sex, gosh, everyone does it. Not to mention Facebook. I still believe marijuana is doing less brain damage than Facebook, but additional research is necessary.
goldfeld 8y ago
It's interesting to hear that the skyrocketing quality of weed is making things worse, or more difficult for hardcore users, I agree. Meanwhile in Rio where I've smoked for years, quality is plummeting and/or price of quality weed, a rare thing to come by, is skyrocketing as combined effects of ever-present prohibition and financial crisis rage on. It comes as a blessing in disguise for many people I know who have smoked daily for years, myself included. Hearing about close friends toning down or quitting as well is encouraging in a reverse peer pressure kind of way. After 6 years I finally decided there's too much crap going into my lungs (where plant material is the pristine part of that) to keep a habit without excessive spending. I quit buying and so quit my daily smoking cold turkey without bigger issues. A good wave of life events helped a lot to focus elsewhere. I wouldn't think about never smoking again and it still happens some times a week when friends have it. I'm starting to feel more confident again in buying just a few grams of greener stuff once or twice a month and try to make it last, using after heavy exercise for pain/recovery management and trying to share what little I've got with friends too. It's a different mindset now, away from the loner self-absorbed retreats from life I had been used to, I feel much better for it. Not any point in this post I guess, just an anecdote.
robdachshund 8y ago
What's with these shitty anti drug articles all over HN? I just watched a bunch of armchair intellectuals argue over the ethics of ecigs, and now this. MJ is not any more addictive than eating good food or jerking off. It's down to you and having good habits. If you don't have any self control, then anything that gives you a dopamine boost is going to give you problems.
originalsimba 8y ago
$personvar = Planet earth is infected by humans who insist on forcing their perspective on those around them. If you refuse to quit the recreational things you enjoy when $personvar demands it, they label you an addict. It doesn't matter to $personvar if you already proved your non-addiction to yourself and other $personvars, because $personvar has their head up their own asses. This can easily send you on a long journey of self-doubt, and you should absolutely hold $personvar accountable for reducing the quality of your life for their own selfish reasons. Addiction is a real thing sure, and decades of scientific studies have shown that Marijuana is not an addictive substance. Stop tolerating the liars.
grawprog 8y ago
As someone who smokes both cigarettes and weed every day all I can do is laugh when people say the words marijuana addiction....it's pretty easy to go without weed when it runs out...but dear god if I run out of smokes. I've only been smoking for about 3 years. I've smoked weed for over 14 years.
- openIce 8y ago
  I feel bad for people who are so retarded that they don't even try to quit smoking
  - sctb 8y ago
    We've banned this account.
mbowcutt 8y ago
You ever suck dick for marijuana?
- dtx1 8y ago
  > You ever suck dick for marijuana? While it's true that marijuana addiction rarely if ever leads to consequences as you suggest, it ignores the real dangers of marijuana abuse: 1. I've personally witnessed someone young and healthy go to the hospital of smoking weed and getting cardiac dysrhythmia. We were young, studid and very lucky that the hippy parents were there to call an ambulance. If we had been alone, who knows how we would have reacted or not reacted. 2. I've also seen a friend getting a long lasting psychotic episode from smoking weed. He's better know and there have been other factors involved but weed for sure hasn't made it better for him and was obviously a trigger. 3. Having struggled with depression, weed can become very addictive and destroy your live and career if you keep sinking into a deeper and deeper hole. TL;DR Just because it's less dangerous then most other drugs doesn't mean weed is to be fucked around with carelessly. If you use drugs, use them safely and beware of the addiction potential, especially if you are in a high risk of addiction in general.
- coldtea 8y ago
  You'd be surprised. Besides, you don't suck dick for wine either, and yet alcoholism is a real thing.
evo_9 8y ago
It's hard for me to relate to this. I smoke daily, and probably what most would consider a lot. I however also travel for work and or other reasons and often go days or a week without smoking. It has no noticeable effect on me. It could be because I'm extremely active and fit. I workout basically 7 days a week, mostly because I do a lot of intense stuff 'for fun' (aka, play hockey 3-4 days a week, etc). I'm not saying it's not true, just pointing out this could be related to things beyond just pot. Aka, inactivity, perhaps an already down mental state, etc etc. I also take a shit-ton of vitamins and sups, I'm about to turn 51 and I train hard and play hard because I'm often skating against high-level 18-20 year old's etc, so I'm quite driven to stay at the top of my game. Possible some of the vits/sups I take are offsetting whatever the pot is doing to others. Diet, exercise, sleep - so many factors goes into feeling well. Addiction though, man that's a lot more extreme than I would label my desire for pot. I mean I certainly enjoy it and even sometimes wish I had some on a trip, but it's a passing though more than anything. Update: one point I should note, I only smoke Sativa's, or sativa heavy hybrids. Not sure if that's a factor but thought I was worth noting.
- tzar 8y ago
  How long have you been smoking daily? From the article: > Unlike with opioids and stimulants, marijuana dependence tends to develop slowly: Months or years may pass before symptoms begin to affect a dependent user’s life. The case is similar with alcohol dependence: it can take quite a long time.
  - fhood 8y ago
    I suspect once a day use isn't enough to cause serious dependency (for most people), so long as it isn't being used for self medication. I suspect physical dependency probably results from use as a teenager (when the brain is changing rapidly) or from near constant use, such that your body/brain begins to treat the chemical changes as a baseline and adjust for them.
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techer 8y ago
Addiction is real, and rising.
dev_420 8y ago
Throwaway because obviously the stigma. But yes, it's very real. I am addicted to marijuana. I smoke nearly 3 grams a day; what has become a $1000+/month habit. I've always loved weed but the high salary has allowed me to lose control. I can't sleep or eat without it. Within 24 hours without weed I become an intolerable asshole who cannot eat or sleep. When I do sleep without it, it's full of nightmares and I wake up soaked in a puddle of sweat. I tell myself I am going to quit after every single joint, then I roll another. I know it could be broken with a few months of detox but it's too painful to deal with. That being said I don't think it has anything intrinsically to do with weed. People are just as addicted to cheeseburgers or coffee. The problem is a combination of personal character flaw, and a society that forces people into self medication of all forms.
- dev_420b 8y ago
  I had basically the same experience, though I think I was closer to a gram or so a day, and I never had trouble eating. But yeah, to the people saying it’s not real, try a few days of insomnia. The feeling of being high is nice, but not terribly addictive or unquittable in itself. But going through the crappy parts of withdrawal, feeling irritable, etc., and on top of that, not being able to sleep? It’s torture. In the end I couldn’t quit cold turkey. It took me maybe six months of weaning off before I could quit. Good luck to you.
  - merinowool 8y ago
    People have insomnia and are irritable without ever smoking. Maybe cannabis just masking your problem and what you feel as "withdrawals" is not caused by cannabis. People often attribute causal relationship if it fits their limited knowledge.
    - topmonk 8y ago
      I agree, maybe he should try another strain
    - Jeremy1026 8y ago
      You seem awfully defensive and are quick to tell people they are wrong (without citations) when they disparage marijuana.
fb03 8y ago
Humans can get hooked to anything that triggers a 'feel good' response, be it gorging on food, drugs, gambling or even exercising. With all the grinding, long hours and stressful situations "modern life" puts us through, it's not difficult to see how people more and more just want to hit the 'instant gratification' button instead of actually getting better by working their underlying issues.... there is simply no time for downtime and relaxation anymore, everyone is just too busy doing "actual important stuff", which is a sad matter of affairs.
- taobility 8y ago
  you just want to give a reason to indulge yourself. Every adult should clearly know the difference between good habit or bad addiction.
  - eikenberry 8y ago
    I don't think you meant it, but the way you put that makes it sound like you don't think people should ever indulge in things they enjoy.
  - asdffdsa321 8y ago
    Is exercise a good habit or bad addiction?
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      It can both, since exercise can end up becoming pathological for some, especially those with body-image issues
    - Kluny 8y ago
      Everything is bad for you if you do it enough. "All things in moderation", as the Greeks said.
- nerdponx 8y ago
  The problem is that some of these activities that deliver gratification - drinking alcohol, drinking coffee, smoking weed, playing video games - can be physiologically addicting. You might not realize your habit has become an addiction until you're already addicted.
omegbule 8y ago
A very real thing is that weed is a crutch for depression here in the states.
- deleted 8y ago
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- fhood 8y ago
  that was my first thought as well, but it is interesting that the addiction rate seems to double for those who started as a teenager. I guess it makes sense that changing chemical balances in the brain when it is growing that rapidly could easily cause dependencies.
  - badloginagain 8y ago
    There are studies that teens with a predisposition to schizophrenia and similar mental issues can actually be exacerbated by marijuana. I haven't heard evidence of it doing the same for adults, but I'd have to check. There are a number of reasons why children/teens shouldn't use it, and should be as tolerated a children smoking/drinking/opioid-ing
- StanislavPetrov 8y ago
  Which speaks to the larger question, why are so many people in our society depressed?
  - monkeynotes 8y ago
    Anxiety and depression go hand in hand. Modern life is hard on some people, fear of losing a job or making the next mortgage payment, or getting good grades, and so on can lead to anxiety in people who er toward flight rather than fight. This anxiety can trigger depression and then the horrible cycle begins.
  - anaptdemise 8y ago
    Unsolicited life advice. If you have to drink or do drugs to do your job, you should probably question your career path. If you have to drink or do drugs to feel satisfied with your life, you should probably ask yourself what you have actually done to make your situation better. Good for strippers, accountants, lawyers, anyone.
emodendroket 8y ago
Perhaps that is the case, but what bothers me is that these arguments are often put forth as an argument for continuing to use the criminal justice system to address the problem.
- StanislavPetrov 8y ago
  Not only that, but the fact that their is an extremely high correlation between those decrying the evils of the Devil's Tobacco and those who see nothing wrong with dosing tens of millions of people (including millions of small children) with powerful psychotropic drugs that have far more profound and less understood impacts on the human brain (especially the developing brain of a child) than marijuana.
- DanBC 8y ago
  You can see a lot of public health campaigners who said "we shouldn't legalise until we have some form of treatment set up and we have agreement from sellers that they'll provide warnings". And then some US states legalised, and they mostly don't have treatment and they mostly don't have any point of sale information about harm, and so those same people are asking why not.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    OK, but, again, the main alternative being proposed is locking people up for smoking weed, which is a funny way of helping them.
sAbakumoff 8y ago
C'mon, I smoke every day and still not addicted!
- RIMR 8y ago
  Here's a challenge. Put all your stuff in a container, and put it on a shelf. Leave it there for a week, and don't use it. Every time you think about opening the container, write it down. I bet you'll think about opening the container a LOT more than you think will. Do you think you could make it to the end of the week? If not, you're addicted.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    That's a useful experiment, but that's not what people mean when they talk about cannabis addiction. They mean that cannabis is having a profound harmful impact on the person's life, and the person cannot stop even though they recognise it's causing harm.
    - sAbakumoff 8y ago
      exactly. if I smoke every day and it does not have any impact on my life then it can't be called addiction.
- ovao 8y ago
  How do you know?
  - anothergoogler 8y ago
    I think parent was making a joke.
    - sAbakumoff 8y ago
      Of course it's a joke, u guys are too serious.
mediocrejoker 8y ago
In that entire article, the only definition of 'marijuana addiction' is a single sentence, and one that requires further clarification: > But in the public health and medical communities, it is a well-defined disorder that includes physical withdrawal symptoms, cravings and psychological dependence. Does anyone know what the specific criteria are for diagnosis? The rest of the article seems to be quotes from various people stating without evidence "Yes, marijuana addiction is real" I'm not saying it's not real, but nothing in this article provides any evidence that it is.
- DanBC 8y ago
  Cannabis Use Disorder: https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/cannabis-use-disorder-dsm--5%2c-305.20%2c-304.30 https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/cannabis-use-disorder-d... ---begin quote--- According to the DSM-5, (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fifth edition) the criteria for Cannabis Use Disorder is as follows: Use of cannabis for at least a one year period, with the presence of at least two of the following symptoms, accompanied by significant impairment of functioning and distress: Difficulty containing use of cannabis- the drug is used in larger amounts and over a longer period than intended. Repeated failed efforts to discontinue or reduce the amount of cannabis that is used An inordinate amount of time is occupied acquiring, using, or recovering from the effects of cannabis. Cravings or desires to use cannabis. This can include intrusive thoughts and images, and dreams about cannabis, or olfactory perceptions of the smell of cannabis, due to preoccupation with cannabis. Continued use of cannabis despite adverse consequences from its use, such as criminal charges, ultimatums of abandonment from spouse/partner/friends, and poor productivity. Other important activities in life, such as work, school, hygiene, and responsibility to family and friends are superseded by the desire to use cannabis. Cannabis is used in contexts that are potentially dangerous, such as operating a motor vehicle. Use of cannabis continues despite awareness of physical or psychological problems attributed to use- e.g., anergia, amotivation, chronic cough. Tolerance to Cannabis, as defined by progressively larger amounts of cannabis are needed to obtain the psychoactive effect experienced when use first commenced, or, noticeably reduced effect of use of the same amount of cannabis Withdrawal, defined as the typical withdrawal syndrome associate with cannabis, or cannabis or a similar substance is used to prevent withdrawal symptoms. ---end quote--- This is similar to substance misuse disorder. https://www.verywellmind.com/dsm-5-criteria-for-substance-use-disorders-21926 https://www.verywellmind.com/dsm-5-criteria-for-substance-us... ---begin quote--- The DSM 5 recognizes substance-related disorders resulting from the use of 10 separate classes of drugs: alcohol; caffeine; cannabis; hallucinogens (phencyclidine or similarly acting arylcyclohexylamines, and other hallucinogens, such as LSD); inhalants; opioids; sedatives, hypnotics, or anxiolytics; stimulants (including amphetamine-type substances, cocaine, and other stimulants); tobacco; and other or unknown substances. Therefore, while some major groupings of psychoactive substances are specifically identified, the use of other or unknown substances can also form the basis of a substance-related or addictive disorder. Substance use disorders span a wide variety of problems arising from substance use, and cover 11 different criteria: Taking the substance in larger amounts or for longer than you're meant to. Wanting to cut down or stop using the substance but not managing to. Spending a lot of time getting, using, or recovering from use of the substance. Cravings and urges to use the substance. Not managing to do what you should at work, home, or school because of substance use. Continuing to use, even when it causes problems in relationships. Giving up important social, occupational, or recreational activities because of substance use. Using substances again and again, even when it puts you in danger. Continuing to use, even when you know you have a physical or psychological problem that could have been caused or made worse by the substance. Needing more of the substance to get the effect you want (tolerance). Development of withdrawal symptoms, which can be relieved by taking more of the substance. ---end quote---
Kenji 8y ago
Marijuana addiction is a whole load of baloney. Do you know what's highly addictive? Tobacco. Do you know how people roll their joints? 50% tobacco, 50% weed. See, there's the mistake. Smoke it pure, problem solved. You're addicted to tobacco (and nicotine), not weed.
zaroth 8y ago
> “She told me to come back home. So I did,” Pohl said. “At the time, I wasn’t sure why she did that. I was still in that whole miserable phase, smoking at least an ounce of weed a week — two ounces on a good week.” Yikes. You can do just fine on one gram a month at today’s potency. Two ounces a week is 8 grams a day.
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- pouta 8y ago
  1 per month? As a daily smoker, how?
hsienmaneja 8y ago
Physicians often have colloquially considered pot to not be a root cause for some patients, when it should be. If a child starts self medicating with pot and then their life deteriorates along with their pot usage, there needs to be a focus on cessation of usage, particularly since the child’s brain is still developing. This has nothing to do with addressing any other underlying issues that the child may be experiencing. Regardless, some people are best off staying away from pot entirely (as well as other substances that are not part of this discussion).
syntaxing 8y ago
Interesting. I always though that Marijuana is not as addicting because THC is stored in your fat. The THC gets slowly absorbed back into your system which lessens the withdrawals symptoms. I wonder if there is a threshold where your THC consumption far exceeds the maximum saturation of THC in your fat which make the person experience withdrawal symptoms similar to opioids.
merinowool 8y ago
You can spot propaganda piece by the language they use. "Marijuana", "addiction"... 9% is nothing new and generally accepted value. Comparing to alcohol dependency, cannabis dependency has dramatically lower health risks and sometimes is actually beneficial (self medication)
- zepto 8y ago
  You speak as though most people who take up cannabis are aware of a 10% risk of addiction. Perhaps this ‘generally accepted value’ should be added to the marijuana advertising just to make sure.
grawprog 8y ago
You I know my last comment got flagged away but honestly. I've smoked weed for over 14 years just about every day. I go through an eighth a day some days. I've gone many times for extended periods of without weed. Any time i've been to america, when I was travelling around a lot for work. As I mentioned before I smoke cigarettes, I drink a shit ton of coffee, I also drink alcohol just about every night. My mood decreases far worse when stopping any of the the last three habits far more than stopping weed and I tend to get physical effects also. About the only negative effects I get from stopping weed is a night or two of really vivid dreams. Sure weed is habit forming, but to call it an addiction is ridiculous. I've met plenty of people addicted to opiates or cocaine, meth too. There is a massive difference between what happens when those people stop taking their drugs as opposed to myself or anyone i've ever met stopping weed.
m0llusk 8y ago
Hacker News reading can be an especially pernicious and problematic addiction. Seriously, often in the startup world I find software engineers with TODO lists spanning space and time compulsively reading and scanning the HN front page. Oh, look: cannabis users addicted, dopamine rush. Altruistic punishment means an immediate boost to social status and opportunities for bonding. So who exactly is addicted to what again?
- alex7o 8y ago
  You know theoretically you can be addicted to anything, and sometimes one addiction can help with another one.
- DanBC 8y ago
  Are you preoccupied by HN when you're doing something else? Do you seek HN when it's not available? Is using HN causing you harm but you continue to use it? If you don't answer "yes" to each of these you're not "addicted" to HN.
neo4sure 8y ago
Can we have a comparison with alcohol addiction? This would give an insight into whether is a wider problem as with alcohol.
shamborambo 8y ago
Anything that downregulates neuroreceptors and reduces the production of a neurotransmitter will have a noticeable effect on the areas of the body where those receptors are prevalent, as well as the brain. Smoking cannabis reduces the production of anandamide, a naturally occurring endocannabinoid, and downregulates your CB receptors. Anandamide is being discovered to have essential roles in your endocrine system and many other systems. Cannabis addiction is very real, and can leave a heavy user hospitalized from the withdrawal effects. I have seen first hand heavy dab users being hospitalized with cannabis induced hyperemesis due to the lack of naturally produced anandamide and the downregulation of their cannabinoid receptors. Sure, the average or occasional user may be able to get by without severe side effects from their withdrawal, but with the ease of access we are finding people are smoking more cannabis then they ever have in the past. The mentality that the drug is safe leads to heavily increased use for those who quickly build tolerance. Sure the drug may not kill, but the physiological and psychological effects are not to be ignored.
chrisdhoover 8y ago
It is not.
nerdystoner 8y ago
Here is some of the latest science, an invited review from the Journal of Neuroimmune Pharmacology. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11481-018-9782-9 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11481-018-9782-... Here is a good quote from the discussion portion of this review: <blockquote> As described in the Koob and Volkow model (2016), most drugs of abuse result in the hyperactivation of the mesocorticolimbic dopaminergic reward pathway in the binge-intoxication stage of addiction. This hyperactivation seems to be present in cannabis addiction but to a lower extent. Acute THC administration elicits striatal DA release in animals (Bloomfield et al. 2016) and THC challenges were shown to increase striatal DA transmission in humans (Stokes et al. 2010; Bossong et al. 2015); although other studies have found no THC-induced increases in striatal DA (Barkus et al. 2011; Urban et al. 2012). Additionally, there are no baseline differences in dopamine D2/D3 receptor availability between cannabis users and healthy controls (Volkow et al. 2014c; van de Giessen et al. 2017), a finding that does not parallel addiction to other drugs of abuse (including cocaine, alcohol, methamphetamine, nicotine, or heroin) which is associated with substantial reductions in D2R availability in the ventral striatum (Wang et al. 1997; Volkow et al. 2001, 2014c, 2017c; Martinez et al. 2012; Albrecht et al. 2013; Tomasi et al. 2015a; Wiers et al. 2016a; Ashok et al. 2017). Nonetheless, as with other drugs of abuse, chronic cannabis use still results in blunted dopamine reactivity to a stimulant challenge (Volkow et al. 2014c; van de Giessen et al. 2017). </blockquote> furthermore (CUD = Cannabis Use Disorder): <blockquote> Interestingly, chronic cannabis use is associated with a downregulation of CB1R – THC’s target receptor – that is restored after 4 weeks of abstinence in humans (Hirvonen et al. 2012). This pattern of abstinence-induced changes in target receptor density is also seen after abstinence from other drugs of abuse such as heroin, stimulants, and alcohol (in humans and animals) but with some caveats: the changes found are not consistent across brain regions for every drug and abstinence periods are not congruent between studies (Wang et al. 2012; Seip-Cammack et al. 2013; Ashok et al. 2017; Volkow et al. 2017c). Future studies should examine to whether changes in target receptors after abstinence are comparable across brain regions and if they follow the same time course in CUD and other SUD. </blockquote> Basically, Cannabis is a little addictive, maybe, and abstinence makes most people somewhat cranky and sleepless for a few days. Personally, I've been a constant consumer for 25+ years, vape all day and grow my own. Quit a week before leaving for a three week international vacation that I'm almost done with, because I was intrigued by the 4 weeks of abstinence quote above. Not much in the way of sleeplessness or crankiness. Plenty of weird dreams though. Just like all my usual abstaining vacations and visits home, which usually don't last a month. YMMV. IMHO the real addiction is buying seeds. I think I have enough in my fridge to last me the rest of my life :-(
namlem 8y ago
I've been addicted to weed. Back in May I quit for a while and I had 2-3 days of withdrawal. It wasn't that bad overall, but I was grumpy and had no appetite for those few days. It's not accurate to say that cannabis is not physically addictive, even if it's much less so than opiates or alcohol.

115 points by jeffreyrogers 8y ago

Money addiction is real and all times high. Sex, gosh, everyone does it. Not to mention Facebook. I still believe marijuana is doing less brain damage than Facebook, but additional research is necessary.

goldfeld 8y ago

It's interesting to hear that the skyrocketing quality of weed is making things worse, or more difficult for hardcore users, I agree. Meanwhile in Rio where I've smoked for years, quality is plummeting and/or price of quality weed, a rare thing to come by, is skyrocketing as combined effects of ever-present prohibition and financial crisis rage on. It comes as a blessing in disguise for many people I know who have smoked daily for years, myself included. Hearing about close friends toning down or quitting as well is encouraging in a reverse peer pressure kind of way. After 6 years I finally decided there's too much crap going into my lungs (where plant material is the pristine part of that) to keep a habit without excessive spending. I quit buying and so quit my daily smoking cold turkey without bigger issues. A good wave of life events helped a lot to focus elsewhere. I wouldn't think about never smoking again and it still happens some times a week when friends have it. I'm starting to feel more confident again in buying just a few grams of greener stuff once or twice a month and try to make it last, using after heavy exercise for pain/recovery management and trying to share what little I've got with friends too. It's a different mindset now, away from the loner self-absorbed retreats from life I had been used to, I feel much better for it. Not any point in this post I guess, just an anecdote.

robdachshund 8y ago

What's with these shitty anti drug articles all over HN? I just watched a bunch of armchair intellectuals argue over the ethics of ecigs, and now this. MJ is not any more addictive than eating good food or jerking off. It's down to you and having good habits. If you don't have any self control, then anything that gives you a dopamine boost is going to give you problems.

originalsimba 8y ago

$personvar = Planet earth is infected by humans who insist on forcing their perspective on those around them. If you refuse to quit the recreational things you enjoy when $personvar demands it, they label you an addict. It doesn't matter to $personvar if you already proved your non-addiction to yourself and other $personvars, because $personvar has their head up their own asses. This can easily send you on a long journey of self-doubt, and you should absolutely hold $personvar accountable for reducing the quality of your life for their own selfish reasons. Addiction is a real thing sure, and decades of scientific studies have shown that Marijuana is not an addictive substance. Stop tolerating the liars.

grawprog 8y ago

As someone who smokes both cigarettes and weed every day all I can do is laugh when people say the words marijuana addiction....it's pretty easy to go without weed when it runs out...but dear god if I run out of smokes. I've only been smoking for about 3 years. I've smoked weed for over 14 years.

openIce 8y ago
I feel bad for people who are so retarded that they don't even try to quit smoking
- sctb 8y ago
  We've banned this account.

mbowcutt 8y ago

You ever suck dick for marijuana?

dtx1 8y ago
> You ever suck dick for marijuana? While it's true that marijuana addiction rarely if ever leads to consequences as you suggest, it ignores the real dangers of marijuana abuse: 1. I've personally witnessed someone young and healthy go to the hospital of smoking weed and getting cardiac dysrhythmia. We were young, studid and very lucky that the hippy parents were there to call an ambulance. If we had been alone, who knows how we would have reacted or not reacted. 2. I've also seen a friend getting a long lasting psychotic episode from smoking weed. He's better know and there have been other factors involved but weed for sure hasn't made it better for him and was obviously a trigger. 3. Having struggled with depression, weed can become very addictive and destroy your live and career if you keep sinking into a deeper and deeper hole. TL;DR Just because it's less dangerous then most other drugs doesn't mean weed is to be fucked around with carelessly. If you use drugs, use them safely and beware of the addiction potential, especially if you are in a high risk of addiction in general.
coldtea 8y ago
You'd be surprised. Besides, you don't suck dick for wine either, and yet alcoholism is a real thing.

evo_9 8y ago

It's hard for me to relate to this. I smoke daily, and probably what most would consider a lot. I however also travel for work and or other reasons and often go days or a week without smoking. It has no noticeable effect on me. It could be because I'm extremely active and fit. I workout basically 7 days a week, mostly because I do a lot of intense stuff 'for fun' (aka, play hockey 3-4 days a week, etc). I'm not saying it's not true, just pointing out this could be related to things beyond just pot. Aka, inactivity, perhaps an already down mental state, etc etc. I also take a shit-ton of vitamins and sups, I'm about to turn 51 and I train hard and play hard because I'm often skating against high-level 18-20 year old's etc, so I'm quite driven to stay at the top of my game. Possible some of the vits/sups I take are offsetting whatever the pot is doing to others. Diet, exercise, sleep - so many factors goes into feeling well. Addiction though, man that's a lot more extreme than I would label my desire for pot. I mean I certainly enjoy it and even sometimes wish I had some on a trip, but it's a passing though more than anything. Update: one point I should note, I only smoke Sativa's, or sativa heavy hybrids. Not sure if that's a factor but thought I was worth noting.

tzar 8y ago
How long have you been smoking daily? From the article: > Unlike with opioids and stimulants, marijuana dependence tends to develop slowly: Months or years may pass before symptoms begin to affect a dependent user’s life. The case is similar with alcohol dependence: it can take quite a long time.
- fhood 8y ago
  I suspect once a day use isn't enough to cause serious dependency (for most people), so long as it isn't being used for self medication. I suspect physical dependency probably results from use as a teenager (when the brain is changing rapidly) or from near constant use, such that your body/brain begins to treat the chemical changes as a baseline and adjust for them.
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techer 8y ago

Addiction is real, and rising.

dev_420 8y ago

Throwaway because obviously the stigma. But yes, it's very real. I am addicted to marijuana. I smoke nearly 3 grams a day; what has become a $1000+/month habit. I've always loved weed but the high salary has allowed me to lose control. I can't sleep or eat without it. Within 24 hours without weed I become an intolerable asshole who cannot eat or sleep. When I do sleep without it, it's full of nightmares and I wake up soaked in a puddle of sweat. I tell myself I am going to quit after every single joint, then I roll another. I know it could be broken with a few months of detox but it's too painful to deal with. That being said I don't think it has anything intrinsically to do with weed. People are just as addicted to cheeseburgers or coffee. The problem is a combination of personal character flaw, and a society that forces people into self medication of all forms.

dev_420b 8y ago
I had basically the same experience, though I think I was closer to a gram or so a day, and I never had trouble eating. But yeah, to the people saying it’s not real, try a few days of insomnia. The feeling of being high is nice, but not terribly addictive or unquittable in itself. But going through the crappy parts of withdrawal, feeling irritable, etc., and on top of that, not being able to sleep? It’s torture. In the end I couldn’t quit cold turkey. It took me maybe six months of weaning off before I could quit. Good luck to you.
- merinowool 8y ago
  People have insomnia and are irritable without ever smoking. Maybe cannabis just masking your problem and what you feel as "withdrawals" is not caused by cannabis. People often attribute causal relationship if it fits their limited knowledge.
  - topmonk 8y ago
    I agree, maybe he should try another strain
  - Jeremy1026 8y ago
    You seem awfully defensive and are quick to tell people they are wrong (without citations) when they disparage marijuana.

fb03 8y ago

Humans can get hooked to anything that triggers a 'feel good' response, be it gorging on food, drugs, gambling or even exercising. With all the grinding, long hours and stressful situations "modern life" puts us through, it's not difficult to see how people more and more just want to hit the 'instant gratification' button instead of actually getting better by working their underlying issues.... there is simply no time for downtime and relaxation anymore, everyone is just too busy doing "actual important stuff", which is a sad matter of affairs.

taobility 8y ago
you just want to give a reason to indulge yourself. Every adult should clearly know the difference between good habit or bad addiction.
- eikenberry 8y ago
  I don't think you meant it, but the way you put that makes it sound like you don't think people should ever indulge in things they enjoy.
- asdffdsa321 8y ago
  Is exercise a good habit or bad addiction?
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    It can both, since exercise can end up becoming pathological for some, especially those with body-image issues
  - Kluny 8y ago
    Everything is bad for you if you do it enough. "All things in moderation", as the Greeks said.
nerdponx 8y ago
The problem is that some of these activities that deliver gratification - drinking alcohol, drinking coffee, smoking weed, playing video games - can be physiologically addicting. You might not realize your habit has become an addiction until you're already addicted.

omegbule 8y ago

A very real thing is that weed is a crutch for depression here in the states.

deleted 8y ago
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fhood 8y ago
that was my first thought as well, but it is interesting that the addiction rate seems to double for those who started as a teenager. I guess it makes sense that changing chemical balances in the brain when it is growing that rapidly could easily cause dependencies.
- badloginagain 8y ago
  There are studies that teens with a predisposition to schizophrenia and similar mental issues can actually be exacerbated by marijuana. I haven't heard evidence of it doing the same for adults, but I'd have to check. There are a number of reasons why children/teens shouldn't use it, and should be as tolerated a children smoking/drinking/opioid-ing
StanislavPetrov 8y ago
Which speaks to the larger question, why are so many people in our society depressed?
- monkeynotes 8y ago
  Anxiety and depression go hand in hand. Modern life is hard on some people, fear of losing a job or making the next mortgage payment, or getting good grades, and so on can lead to anxiety in people who er toward flight rather than fight. This anxiety can trigger depression and then the horrible cycle begins.
- anaptdemise 8y ago
  Unsolicited life advice. If you have to drink or do drugs to do your job, you should probably question your career path. If you have to drink or do drugs to feel satisfied with your life, you should probably ask yourself what you have actually done to make your situation better. Good for strippers, accountants, lawyers, anyone.

emodendroket 8y ago

Perhaps that is the case, but what bothers me is that these arguments are often put forth as an argument for continuing to use the criminal justice system to address the problem.

StanislavPetrov 8y ago
Not only that, but the fact that their is an extremely high correlation between those decrying the evils of the Devil's Tobacco and those who see nothing wrong with dosing tens of millions of people (including millions of small children) with powerful psychotropic drugs that have far more profound and less understood impacts on the human brain (especially the developing brain of a child) than marijuana.
DanBC 8y ago
You can see a lot of public health campaigners who said "we shouldn't legalise until we have some form of treatment set up and we have agreement from sellers that they'll provide warnings". And then some US states legalised, and they mostly don't have treatment and they mostly don't have any point of sale information about harm, and so those same people are asking why not.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  OK, but, again, the main alternative being proposed is locking people up for smoking weed, which is a funny way of helping them.

sAbakumoff 8y ago

C'mon, I smoke every day and still not addicted!

RIMR 8y ago
Here's a challenge. Put all your stuff in a container, and put it on a shelf. Leave it there for a week, and don't use it. Every time you think about opening the container, write it down. I bet you'll think about opening the container a LOT more than you think will. Do you think you could make it to the end of the week? If not, you're addicted.
- DanBC 8y ago
  That's a useful experiment, but that's not what people mean when they talk about cannabis addiction. They mean that cannabis is having a profound harmful impact on the person's life, and the person cannot stop even though they recognise it's causing harm.
  - sAbakumoff 8y ago
    exactly. if I smoke every day and it does not have any impact on my life then it can't be called addiction.
ovao 8y ago
How do you know?
- anothergoogler 8y ago
  I think parent was making a joke.
  - sAbakumoff 8y ago
    Of course it's a joke, u guys are too serious.

mediocrejoker 8y ago

In that entire article, the only definition of 'marijuana addiction' is a single sentence, and one that requires further clarification: > But in the public health and medical communities, it is a well-defined disorder that includes physical withdrawal symptoms, cravings and psychological dependence. Does anyone know what the specific criteria are for diagnosis? The rest of the article seems to be quotes from various people stating without evidence "Yes, marijuana addiction is real" I'm not saying it's not real, but nothing in this article provides any evidence that it is.

DanBC 8y ago
Cannabis Use Disorder: https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/cannabis-use-disorder-dsm--5%2c-305.20%2c-304.30 https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/cannabis-use-disorder-d... ---begin quote--- According to the DSM-5, (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fifth edition) the criteria for Cannabis Use Disorder is as follows: Use of cannabis for at least a one year period, with the presence of at least two of the following symptoms, accompanied by significant impairment of functioning and distress: Difficulty containing use of cannabis- the drug is used in larger amounts and over a longer period than intended. Repeated failed efforts to discontinue or reduce the amount of cannabis that is used An inordinate amount of time is occupied acquiring, using, or recovering from the effects of cannabis. Cravings or desires to use cannabis. This can include intrusive thoughts and images, and dreams about cannabis, or olfactory perceptions of the smell of cannabis, due to preoccupation with cannabis. Continued use of cannabis despite adverse consequences from its use, such as criminal charges, ultimatums of abandonment from spouse/partner/friends, and poor productivity. Other important activities in life, such as work, school, hygiene, and responsibility to family and friends are superseded by the desire to use cannabis. Cannabis is used in contexts that are potentially dangerous, such as operating a motor vehicle. Use of cannabis continues despite awareness of physical or psychological problems attributed to use- e.g., anergia, amotivation, chronic cough. Tolerance to Cannabis, as defined by progressively larger amounts of cannabis are needed to obtain the psychoactive effect experienced when use first commenced, or, noticeably reduced effect of use of the same amount of cannabis Withdrawal, defined as the typical withdrawal syndrome associate with cannabis, or cannabis or a similar substance is used to prevent withdrawal symptoms. ---end quote--- This is similar to substance misuse disorder. https://www.verywellmind.com/dsm-5-criteria-for-substance-use-disorders-21926 https://www.verywellmind.com/dsm-5-criteria-for-substance-us... ---begin quote--- The DSM 5 recognizes substance-related disorders resulting from the use of 10 separate classes of drugs: alcohol; caffeine; cannabis; hallucinogens (phencyclidine or similarly acting arylcyclohexylamines, and other hallucinogens, such as LSD); inhalants; opioids; sedatives, hypnotics, or anxiolytics; stimulants (including amphetamine-type substances, cocaine, and other stimulants); tobacco; and other or unknown substances. Therefore, while some major groupings of psychoactive substances are specifically identified, the use of other or unknown substances can also form the basis of a substance-related or addictive disorder. Substance use disorders span a wide variety of problems arising from substance use, and cover 11 different criteria: Taking the substance in larger amounts or for longer than you're meant to. Wanting to cut down or stop using the substance but not managing to. Spending a lot of time getting, using, or recovering from use of the substance. Cravings and urges to use the substance. Not managing to do what you should at work, home, or school because of substance use. Continuing to use, even when it causes problems in relationships. Giving up important social, occupational, or recreational activities because of substance use. Using substances again and again, even when it puts you in danger. Continuing to use, even when you know you have a physical or psychological problem that could have been caused or made worse by the substance. Needing more of the substance to get the effect you want (tolerance). Development of withdrawal symptoms, which can be relieved by taking more of the substance. ---end quote---

Kenji 8y ago

Marijuana addiction is a whole load of baloney. Do you know what's highly addictive? Tobacco. Do you know how people roll their joints? 50% tobacco, 50% weed. See, there's the mistake. Smoke it pure, problem solved. You're addicted to tobacco (and nicotine), not weed.

zaroth 8y ago

> “She told me to come back home. So I did,” Pohl said. “At the time, I wasn’t sure why she did that. I was still in that whole miserable phase, smoking at least an ounce of weed a week — two ounces on a good week.” Yikes. You can do just fine on one gram a month at today’s potency. Two ounces a week is 8 grams a day.

deleted 8y ago
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pouta 8y ago
1 per month? As a daily smoker, how?

hsienmaneja 8y ago

Physicians often have colloquially considered pot to not be a root cause for some patients, when it should be. If a child starts self medicating with pot and then their life deteriorates along with their pot usage, there needs to be a focus on cessation of usage, particularly since the child’s brain is still developing. This has nothing to do with addressing any other underlying issues that the child may be experiencing. Regardless, some people are best off staying away from pot entirely (as well as other substances that are not part of this discussion).

syntaxing 8y ago

Interesting. I always though that Marijuana is not as addicting because THC is stored in your fat. The THC gets slowly absorbed back into your system which lessens the withdrawals symptoms. I wonder if there is a threshold where your THC consumption far exceeds the maximum saturation of THC in your fat which make the person experience withdrawal symptoms similar to opioids.

merinowool 8y ago

You can spot propaganda piece by the language they use. "Marijuana", "addiction"... 9% is nothing new and generally accepted value. Comparing to alcohol dependency, cannabis dependency has dramatically lower health risks and sometimes is actually beneficial (self medication)

zepto 8y ago
You speak as though most people who take up cannabis are aware of a 10% risk of addiction. Perhaps this ‘generally accepted value’ should be added to the marijuana advertising just to make sure.

grawprog 8y ago

You I know my last comment got flagged away but honestly. I've smoked weed for over 14 years just about every day. I go through an eighth a day some days. I've gone many times for extended periods of without weed. Any time i've been to america, when I was travelling around a lot for work. As I mentioned before I smoke cigarettes, I drink a shit ton of coffee, I also drink alcohol just about every night. My mood decreases far worse when stopping any of the the last three habits far more than stopping weed and I tend to get physical effects also. About the only negative effects I get from stopping weed is a night or two of really vivid dreams. Sure weed is habit forming, but to call it an addiction is ridiculous. I've met plenty of people addicted to opiates or cocaine, meth too. There is a massive difference between what happens when those people stop taking their drugs as opposed to myself or anyone i've ever met stopping weed.

m0llusk 8y ago

Hacker News reading can be an especially pernicious and problematic addiction. Seriously, often in the startup world I find software engineers with TODO lists spanning space and time compulsively reading and scanning the HN front page. Oh, look: cannabis users addicted, dopamine rush. Altruistic punishment means an immediate boost to social status and opportunities for bonding. So who exactly is addicted to what again?

alex7o 8y ago
You know theoretically you can be addicted to anything, and sometimes one addiction can help with another one.
DanBC 8y ago
Are you preoccupied by HN when you're doing something else? Do you seek HN when it's not available? Is using HN causing you harm but you continue to use it? If you don't answer "yes" to each of these you're not "addicted" to HN.

neo4sure 8y ago

Can we have a comparison with alcohol addiction? This would give an insight into whether is a wider problem as with alcohol.

shamborambo 8y ago

Anything that downregulates neuroreceptors and reduces the production of a neurotransmitter will have a noticeable effect on the areas of the body where those receptors are prevalent, as well as the brain. Smoking cannabis reduces the production of anandamide, a naturally occurring endocannabinoid, and downregulates your CB receptors. Anandamide is being discovered to have essential roles in your endocrine system and many other systems. Cannabis addiction is very real, and can leave a heavy user hospitalized from the withdrawal effects. I have seen first hand heavy dab users being hospitalized with cannabis induced hyperemesis due to the lack of naturally produced anandamide and the downregulation of their cannabinoid receptors. Sure, the average or occasional user may be able to get by without severe side effects from their withdrawal, but with the ease of access we are finding people are smoking more cannabis then they ever have in the past. The mentality that the drug is safe leads to heavily increased use for those who quickly build tolerance. Sure the drug may not kill, but the physiological and psychological effects are not to be ignored.

chrisdhoover 8y ago

It is not.

nerdystoner 8y ago

Here is some of the latest science, an invited review from the Journal of Neuroimmune Pharmacology. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11481-018-9782-9 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11481-018-9782-... Here is a good quote from the discussion portion of this review: <blockquote> As described in the Koob and Volkow model (2016), most drugs of abuse result in the hyperactivation of the mesocorticolimbic dopaminergic reward pathway in the binge-intoxication stage of addiction. This hyperactivation seems to be present in cannabis addiction but to a lower extent. Acute THC administration elicits striatal DA release in animals (Bloomfield et al. 2016) and THC challenges were shown to increase striatal DA transmission in humans (Stokes et al. 2010; Bossong et al. 2015); although other studies have found no THC-induced increases in striatal DA (Barkus et al. 2011; Urban et al. 2012). Additionally, there are no baseline differences in dopamine D2/D3 receptor availability between cannabis users and healthy controls (Volkow et al. 2014c; van de Giessen et al. 2017), a finding that does not parallel addiction to other drugs of abuse (including cocaine, alcohol, methamphetamine, nicotine, or heroin) which is associated with substantial reductions in D2R availability in the ventral striatum (Wang et al. 1997; Volkow et al. 2001, 2014c, 2017c; Martinez et al. 2012; Albrecht et al. 2013; Tomasi et al. 2015a; Wiers et al. 2016a; Ashok et al. 2017). Nonetheless, as with other drugs of abuse, chronic cannabis use still results in blunted dopamine reactivity to a stimulant challenge (Volkow et al. 2014c; van de Giessen et al. 2017). </blockquote> furthermore (CUD = Cannabis Use Disorder): <blockquote> Interestingly, chronic cannabis use is associated with a downregulation of CB1R – THC’s target receptor – that is restored after 4 weeks of abstinence in humans (Hirvonen et al. 2012). This pattern of abstinence-induced changes in target receptor density is also seen after abstinence from other drugs of abuse such as heroin, stimulants, and alcohol (in humans and animals) but with some caveats: the changes found are not consistent across brain regions for every drug and abstinence periods are not congruent between studies (Wang et al. 2012; Seip-Cammack et al. 2013; Ashok et al. 2017; Volkow et al. 2017c). Future studies should examine to whether changes in target receptors after abstinence are comparable across brain regions and if they follow the same time course in CUD and other SUD. </blockquote> Basically, Cannabis is a little addictive, maybe, and abstinence makes most people somewhat cranky and sleepless for a few days. Personally, I've been a constant consumer for 25+ years, vape all day and grow my own. Quit a week before leaving for a three week international vacation that I'm almost done with, because I was intrigued by the 4 weeks of abstinence quote above. Not much in the way of sleeplessness or crankiness. Plenty of weird dreams though. Just like all my usual abstaining vacations and visits home, which usually don't last a month. YMMV. IMHO the real addiction is buying seeds. I think I have enough in my fridge to last me the rest of my life :-(

namlem 8y ago

I've been addicted to weed. Back in May I quit for a while and I had 2-3 days of withdrawal. It wasn't that bad overall, but I was grumpy and had no appetite for those few days. It's not accurate to say that cannabis is not physically addictive, even if it's much less so than opiates or alcohol.