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It may be usable, but my point was: you can't call something "complete" when it doesn't implement its own spec. Imagine telling your boss "Look, I've released

It may be usable, but my point was: you can't call something "complete" when it doesn't implement its own spec. Imagine telling your boss "Look, I've released this thing three times now! I know it's just now doing 85-90% of what you asked, but still, what is your problem?!".

draegtun 16y ago
The Rakudo developers have never said that Rakudo Star was a complete implementation of the Perl 6 spec. They called it a useful, usable, "early adopter" distribution of Perl 6 (http://rakudo.org/node/75 http://rakudo.org/node/75). Anyway I'm a "glass is half full" type of person and I view the 85-90% has a good thing (and I think the "boss", ie. Larry Wall would agree :)
brunov 16y ago
When the spec itself is as feature rich as Perl 6 is, having an 80% complete implementation still accounts for a very usable, very feature rich language to play with and implement useful programs in.
chromatic 16y ago
It may be usable, but my point was... ... a silly pseudo-intellectual ontological rebuttal of "oh but it's not really a release!" Are you suggesting there's a better approach to develop software than incremental delivery and design changes based on feedback from real users? That contradicts the experience of the people developing Perl 6, but I'm sure many of us would entertain contrary-but-concrete evidence.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  Looks like my post really touched a nerve given your totally over the top characterization of it. >Are you suggesting ... No, I'm suggesting that when someone complains that they still can't use perl 6 after all these years it's dishonest and overly defensive to try and claim that an 80% release that's apparently been released multiple times makes their complaint a complaint of ignorance. A more honest approach would be to respond "well, that's true but we're working on it and you can help by using what we have so far".
  - chromatic 16y ago
    I'm suggesting that when someone complains that they still can't use perl 6 after all these years.... I don't read that in any sense in what you wrote before ("Perl 6 is somewhere on the horizon"). I don't know anyone's specific needs to deploy Perl 6 for Serious Production Code, but I do know that multiple implementations have been available for five and a half years such that anyone interested could evaluate its suitability and that the purpose of the Rakudo Star releases is to produce code usable for more and more people.

draegtun 16y ago

The Rakudo developers have never said that Rakudo Star was a complete implementation of the Perl 6 spec. They called it a useful, usable, "early adopter" distribution of Perl 6 (http://rakudo.org/node/75 http://rakudo.org/node/75). Anyway I'm a "glass is half full" type of person and I view the 85-90% has a good thing (and I think the "boss", ie. Larry Wall would agree :)

brunov 16y ago

When the spec itself is as feature rich as Perl 6 is, having an 80% complete implementation still accounts for a very usable, very feature rich language to play with and implement useful programs in.

chromatic 16y ago

It may be usable, but my point was... ... a silly pseudo-intellectual ontological rebuttal of "oh but it's not really a release!" Are you suggesting there's a better approach to develop software than incremental delivery and design changes based on feedback from real users? That contradicts the experience of the people developing Perl 6, but I'm sure many of us would entertain contrary-but-concrete evidence.

loewenskind 16y ago
Looks like my post really touched a nerve given your totally over the top characterization of it. >Are you suggesting ... No, I'm suggesting that when someone complains that they still can't use perl 6 after all these years it's dishonest and overly defensive to try and claim that an 80% release that's apparently been released multiple times makes their complaint a complaint of ignorance. A more honest approach would be to respond "well, that's true but we're working on it and you can help by using what we have so far".
- chromatic 16y ago
  I'm suggesting that when someone complains that they still can't use perl 6 after all these years.... I don't read that in any sense in what you wrote before ("Perl 6 is somewhere on the horizon"). I don't know anyone's specific needs to deploy Perl 6 for Serious Production Code, but I do know that multiple implementations have been available for five and a half years such that anyone interested could evaluate its suitability and that the purpose of the Rakudo Star releases is to produce code usable for more and more people.