5 ms·

Probably because they loved the language. Humans are humans, and not everything is made with a rational financial decision. If you use the language, and like ru

by RX14 8y ago

Probably because they loved the language. Humans are humans, and not everything is made with a rational financial decision. If you use the language, and like ruby and static typing, you'll find that there's a lot to love.

MaxBarraclough 8y ago
I see your point, but I sympathise with it less and less as time goes on. Programming languages are just tools. Software development should strive to be a proper, rational, engineering discipline. Humans aren't robots, but one's choice of development tools is steered by real forces, both technical and business. I don't see that whim, unconstrained by such forces, has any place in the decision. Same goes for curiosity. If it were my decision to choose a language to use in production, I'd want to go with a safe boring choice like Python/Java. Mature and stable on lots of platforms, easy to hire for, plenty of libraries and tooling. Taking a risk is sometimes the right thing to do, but I don't see choice of programming language as being one of those times. It's not that I don't like neat languages like Crystal - I really do - and I'm certainly not trying to put them down. I just wouldn't want to try to argue to management that using it is in the company's best interest.
- RX14 8y ago
  It's always a tradeoff between having fun and accepted practice, and I'm glad for the brave souls who do use Crystal in production. After all, every mature language was once someone's toy, and you can never get from one to the other without many successive firsts. I'm not here to recommend people use it in production, but I can understand the mindset of people who do.
- spraak 8y ago
  > Software development should strive to be a proper, rational, engineering discipline. Well, to use an analogy from civil engineering, I don't think choosing a programming language is always as critical as which type of concrete you choose and how it's reinforced. While it's true you wouldn't choose just any language, there is more room for preference here. Especially because you can switch languages for a project, but practically can't switch the material used in the foundation of a building. > I just wouldn't want to try to argue to management that using it is in the company's best interest. In some companies you don't need to argue with management about that decision. Also, a language being less popular or obscure doesn't mean you can't evaluate it's stability and feel comfortable enough with where it's at to use it. I'm glad people do because otherwise we wouldn't even see any language as popular as it is.
  - MaxBarraclough 8y ago
    > you can switch languages for a project What do you mean? If you're 100kloc in, you pay a considerable price in jumping ship. Rewriting means throwing out your investment. Interfacing two different languages for one project is rarely a good move. > I'm glad people do because otherwise we wouldn't even see any language as popular as it is. Sure, me too. Like I said, I do like new programming languages, I just don't see myself using one for serious work.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Software development should strive to be a proper, rational, engineering discipline. That will never happen. Or when it did it will be all mechanized, with machines doing the programming.
  - MaxBarraclough 8y ago
    Even today, a tiny proportion of software development is actually done with a respectable engineering process. It's not a myth, and I don't see that it should be dismissed as a pipe-dream to think that this sort of serious engineering approach could be adopted outside the critical-systems industry. https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff

by RX14 8y ago

MaxBarraclough 8y ago

I see your point, but I sympathise with it less and less as time goes on. Programming languages are just tools. Software development should strive to be a proper, rational, engineering discipline. Humans aren't robots, but one's choice of development tools is steered by real forces, both technical and business. I don't see that whim, unconstrained by such forces, has any place in the decision. Same goes for curiosity. If it were my decision to choose a language to use in production, I'd want to go with a safe boring choice like Python/Java. Mature and stable on lots of platforms, easy to hire for, plenty of libraries and tooling. Taking a risk is sometimes the right thing to do, but I don't see choice of programming language as being one of those times. It's not that I don't like neat languages like Crystal - I really do - and I'm certainly not trying to put them down. I just wouldn't want to try to argue to management that using it is in the company's best interest.

RX14 8y ago
It's always a tradeoff between having fun and accepted practice, and I'm glad for the brave souls who do use Crystal in production. After all, every mature language was once someone's toy, and you can never get from one to the other without many successive firsts. I'm not here to recommend people use it in production, but I can understand the mindset of people who do.
spraak 8y ago
> Software development should strive to be a proper, rational, engineering discipline. Well, to use an analogy from civil engineering, I don't think choosing a programming language is always as critical as which type of concrete you choose and how it's reinforced. While it's true you wouldn't choose just any language, there is more room for preference here. Especially because you can switch languages for a project, but practically can't switch the material used in the foundation of a building. > I just wouldn't want to try to argue to management that using it is in the company's best interest. In some companies you don't need to argue with management about that decision. Also, a language being less popular or obscure doesn't mean you can't evaluate it's stability and feel comfortable enough with where it's at to use it. I'm glad people do because otherwise we wouldn't even see any language as popular as it is.
- MaxBarraclough 8y ago
  > you can switch languages for a project What do you mean? If you're 100kloc in, you pay a considerable price in jumping ship. Rewriting means throwing out your investment. Interfacing two different languages for one project is rarely a good move. > I'm glad people do because otherwise we wouldn't even see any language as popular as it is. Sure, me too. Like I said, I do like new programming languages, I just don't see myself using one for serious work.
coldtea 8y ago
>Software development should strive to be a proper, rational, engineering discipline. That will never happen. Or when it did it will be all mechanized, with machines doing the programming.
- MaxBarraclough 8y ago
  Even today, a tiny proportion of software development is actually done with a respectable engineering process. It's not a myth, and I don't see that it should be dismissed as a pipe-dream to think that this sort of serious engineering approach could be adopted outside the critical-systems industry. https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff