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A real commitment to “the nail that sticks out gets hammered down.” https://www.tofugu.com/japan/conformity-in-japan/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/conformity-i

A real commitment to “the nail that sticks out gets hammered down.” https://www.tofugu.com/japan/conformity-in-japan/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/conformity-in-japan/

robin_reala 8y ago
I found out recently that the Chinese have an equivalent phrase: “The fattest pig gets eaten first”.
- setr 8y ago
  That sounds more like its about showing off and such, than it is about generally not following cultural norms
  - Angostura 8y ago
    See also, "the tallest poppy"
    - gaius 8y ago
      See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
      - DavidNielsen 8y ago
        People cite Law of Jante to be anti exceptionalism when in reality it is meant and generally used as a means of reminding high and low alike that we are in this together. We are different, but do not think that your view point on our difference makes you inherently better than me. We are both human, we both share this place called Earth, could we be productive and not turn life into a weirdly specific genitalia measurement contest.. por favor? You are allowed and encouraged to be exceptional, just like everybody else. You should just recognize how you got there and how other people got where they are. In essence, Jante, is a teaching tool regarding inequality. Denmark is a lovely place, in part, because of a general adherence to following those guidelines. Therefore as a Dane it pains me to see it cited as a bad thing and as justification for actions and behaviors Law of Jante which are in direct opposition to how it is de facto taught and applied in Danish society.
        Nasrudith 8y ago
        No offense but how unified is that interpretation and teaching? Just liks how foe instance many say Christianity is about love, nonjudgement and charity but many practice or teach radically different forms which are all about hatred, judgement and prosperity gospels. Likewise some may really be more "tyrannies of mediocrity" where doing anything positive draws harsh responses for making them self reflect and feeling envy in response.
        gaius 8y ago
        You are allowed and encouraged to be exceptiona Laws 1-7 and 10 state otherwise! But this is by no means exclusively a Danish thing, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality I’m English, and here it is enforced by the class system.
        n4r9 8y ago
        > Laws 1-7 and 10 state otherwise! I disagree. OP talks about what you're allowed to be, Jante talks about what you're allowed to think.
        gaius 8y ago
        How can you be or do anything without thinking about it?
        joncrane 8y ago
        I've always though that Law of Jante was good, while also equating it to "the tallest blade of grass gets cut first."
        kajumix 8y ago
        How does one propose this 'law' without violating many of its own rules (#10 especially)? It smacks of snobbery.
        walshemj 8y ago
        It is also used to keep the peasant in their place be good behave and pay your rent to the bourgeois land lord a common result after the many European revolutions. There was a very Funny BBC comedy "Brass" satirising the gritty northern melodramas one episode had the Forman being seen as trying to be upwardly mobile as he had brought some bicycle clips - not that he would dare to think (or be able to afford) of buying a bicycle.
      - musage 8y ago
        "Don't think yourself better than us; read these and know it for a fact."
- 77pt77 8y ago
  The loudest duck gets shot.
mrpopo 8y ago
Yes. Probably he could have been left alone if he didn't get that much publicity though. There are tons of communities "standing out" in Japan, but they just go by themselves into exile, staying under the radar to survive.
pasabagi 8y ago
To be fair, the American equivalent (Christopher Thomas Knight) was immediately sent to prison.
- bitL 8y ago
  ...for burglaries.
  - pasabagi 8y ago
    ...of candy. (In any case, isn't public nakedness also a crime? It is in many countries.)
    - feintruled 8y ago
      It's technically not illegal in the UK, but they get you one way or the other it seems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gough "The Naked Rambler" has spent years in prison over the matter.
    - laumars 8y ago
      It maybe a crime in highly religious counties but it's actually perfectly legal in many countries (as well as some states in the US). In the UK you can get arrested for "indecent exposure", which I believe basically means someone has to be offered by your nakedness. Which means nude beaches, organised naked cycle events and such like are all perfectly legal. I wouldn't class myself as a naturist but I am often surprised at just how offended some people get by nakedness. I mean sure, nudity of a sexual nature in public places I can understand, but that's completely different to a woman sunbathing topless or a guy hiking. People should just live and let live. But that's just my opinion.
      - Ntrails 8y ago
        > I believe basically means someone has to be offended by your nakedness. Which means nude beaches, organised naked cycle events and such like are all perfectly legal. Fortunately we're all incredibly good at being offended by anything and everything - so I'd argue you've got sod all chance of avoiding it at this point unless in an area explicitly defined as "nudist"

A real commitment to “the nail that sticks out gets hammered down.” https://www.tofugu.com/japan/conformity-in-japan/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/conformity-in-japan/

robin_reala 8y ago

I found out recently that the Chinese have an equivalent phrase: “The fattest pig gets eaten first”.

setr 8y ago
That sounds more like its about showing off and such, than it is about generally not following cultural norms
- Angostura 8y ago
  See also, "the tallest poppy"
  - gaius 8y ago
    See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
    - DavidNielsen 8y ago
      People cite Law of Jante to be anti exceptionalism when in reality it is meant and generally used as a means of reminding high and low alike that we are in this together. We are different, but do not think that your view point on our difference makes you inherently better than me. We are both human, we both share this place called Earth, could we be productive and not turn life into a weirdly specific genitalia measurement contest.. por favor? You are allowed and encouraged to be exceptional, just like everybody else. You should just recognize how you got there and how other people got where they are. In essence, Jante, is a teaching tool regarding inequality. Denmark is a lovely place, in part, because of a general adherence to following those guidelines. Therefore as a Dane it pains me to see it cited as a bad thing and as justification for actions and behaviors Law of Jante which are in direct opposition to how it is de facto taught and applied in Danish society.
      - Nasrudith 8y ago
        No offense but how unified is that interpretation and teaching? Just liks how foe instance many say Christianity is about love, nonjudgement and charity but many practice or teach radically different forms which are all about hatred, judgement and prosperity gospels. Likewise some may really be more "tyrannies of mediocrity" where doing anything positive draws harsh responses for making them self reflect and feeling envy in response.
      - gaius 8y ago
        You are allowed and encouraged to be exceptiona Laws 1-7 and 10 state otherwise! But this is by no means exclusively a Danish thing, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality I’m English, and here it is enforced by the class system.
        n4r9 8y ago
        > Laws 1-7 and 10 state otherwise! I disagree. OP talks about what you're allowed to be, Jante talks about what you're allowed to think.
        gaius 8y ago
        How can you be or do anything without thinking about it?
      - joncrane 8y ago
        I've always though that Law of Jante was good, while also equating it to "the tallest blade of grass gets cut first."
      - kajumix 8y ago
        How does one propose this 'law' without violating many of its own rules (#10 especially)? It smacks of snobbery.
      - walshemj 8y ago
        It is also used to keep the peasant in their place be good behave and pay your rent to the bourgeois land lord a common result after the many European revolutions. There was a very Funny BBC comedy "Brass" satirising the gritty northern melodramas one episode had the Forman being seen as trying to be upwardly mobile as he had brought some bicycle clips - not that he would dare to think (or be able to afford) of buying a bicycle.
    - musage 8y ago
      "Don't think yourself better than us; read these and know it for a fact."
77pt77 8y ago
The loudest duck gets shot.

mrpopo 8y ago

Yes. Probably he could have been left alone if he didn't get that much publicity though. There are tons of communities "standing out" in Japan, but they just go by themselves into exile, staying under the radar to survive.

pasabagi 8y ago

To be fair, the American equivalent (Christopher Thomas Knight) was immediately sent to prison.

bitL 8y ago
...for burglaries.
- pasabagi 8y ago
  ...of candy. (In any case, isn't public nakedness also a crime? It is in many countries.)
  - feintruled 8y ago
    It's technically not illegal in the UK, but they get you one way or the other it seems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gough "The Naked Rambler" has spent years in prison over the matter.
  - laumars 8y ago
    It maybe a crime in highly religious counties but it's actually perfectly legal in many countries (as well as some states in the US). In the UK you can get arrested for "indecent exposure", which I believe basically means someone has to be offered by your nakedness. Which means nude beaches, organised naked cycle events and such like are all perfectly legal. I wouldn't class myself as a naturist but I am often surprised at just how offended some people get by nakedness. I mean sure, nudity of a sexual nature in public places I can understand, but that's completely different to a woman sunbathing topless or a guy hiking. People should just live and let live. But that's just my opinion.
    - Ntrails 8y ago
      > I believe basically means someone has to be offended by your nakedness. Which means nude beaches, organised naked cycle events and such like are all perfectly legal. Fortunately we're all incredibly good at being offended by anything and everything - so I'd argue you've got sod all chance of avoiding it at this point unless in an area explicitly defined as "nudist"