4 ms·

This stuff is cool, but it is also ridiculous over designed and over thought out. Anybody with a welder, angle grinder, plasma cutter, can do all of these thing

by delbel 8y ago

This stuff is cool, but it is also ridiculous over designed and over thought out. Anybody with a welder, angle grinder, plasma cutter, can do all of these things in seconds, from scrap on the side of the road. I guess what this is proposing is having a bunch of pre-fabricated metaL with holes cut. So, 95% of your holes won't be used -- which is a massive overhead for nothing. I can drive in any neighborhood on a Saturday, find a broken threadmil, and cut it up with my plasma cutter to whatever size I need and weld it. If I make a mistake, I can grind the weld off and re-do it. Also I would never trust that bed frame that looks like a deathwish.

Koshkin 8y ago
I think one of the points is to be able to build things without the need of expensive/extensive tooling.
- snarfy 8y ago
  There is a middle ground. I make quite a bit of stuff out of square and angled aluminum stock using only a few basic tools - drill, file, hack saw, propane torch, and aluminum brazing rods. I would use open modular hardware if it were available everywhere like plain metal stock is, but it's not so I've learned to improvise.
jacquesm 8y ago
I see your point, there are a lot of tools required for that approach though and those tools are expensive and will see - at best - part time use making each of those welds and cuts a relatively expensive affair. If you're doing production work then sure, you will need that kind of optimization to stay in business. But if instead you are looking to produce one-offs with relatively low skill and a limited amount of money to spend on tooling then I totally see the point in making things from re-usable and easy to size components. And then there is the garbage disposal element: almost none of this is waste, even at the end of life of the original object. The same goes for Lego, all it is is parts, and parts have a life of their own (in the decades!) that is totally different from the life of the objects made from them (minutes to several years). So the over-design and the over-thinking go towards doing that work once so that the users of the system won't need a tools budget in the 10's of thousands of dollars (welder, plasmacutter, grinder, machine shop to go with it) and still build functional equipment that is not readily available. As for how sturdy the bed frame looks: that's mostly a function of the design of the frame, not of the parts that went into it (Ikea sells kids bedframes that look quite close to what is shown in the article), you could do a much better job if you wanted to with the same parts. I also note a lot of 'cheating' where the system doesn't work anymore (for instance: the stays to stabilize the bed and the legs under the sled).
- zrobotics 8y ago
  Most if these systems looks similar to meccano, so anyone w/ access to a drill and measure could actually make stronger parts. And the strength concern is all the holes weakening the very spindly looking frames. I'm not bored enough to do the stress calcs, but it doesn't look sturdy enough that I'd trust a kid on that bed.
- delbel 8y ago
  I buy the cheapest tools I think if I remember right, here's what I got 170 AMP harbor freight welder -- $125 160 AMP Arc welder, amazon $199 CUT-50 Plasma $225 Pizza style air compressor, on sale HF $49 this weekend Angle grinders - I have a bunch $39-59 Anyway I need these tools because I am constantly breaking my farm equipment. Also, instead of diddling around with things I just tack weld things, like my plow blade broke off I couldn't find the bolt so I just welded it in a few spots. The CUT-50 and the cheap AC/DC arc welder are the best tools, but I use the MIG welder as my first go-to I "modified" the arc welder to make small metal molds in a carbon crucible. I use aluminum, but it will melt steel. I can lathe/mill that to what I need. I also have the cheapest HF mini lathe and a nicer mill. So yeah all this stuff cost me $2000-$3000 but I use it. I also have a completely different CNC setup. They made a kit called the Elektor set in the 1940s-50s, my dad gave me, it is the same concept as this post.
  - kennywinker 8y ago
    That sounds like a very useful skill to have. I’d love to learn, but like so many people I live in small apartment - so this kind of garage workshop stuff doesn’t work well for me. I do occasional small woodworking projects on my balcony, but it requires a lot of forethought and planning... e.g. mostly hand tools, and i can’t just buy an extra sheet of plywood in case I need it.
    - delbel 8y ago
      First thing I do whenever I move is change my Dryer to a NEMA welder plug and outlet. You can sort of use your dryer as a work bench. They make this mini arc welder that is really small for $140, I've been trying to justify owning two arc welder to just try it. But they all use the same NEMA plug, you just need to switch your dryer over to it and you're good.
Nasrudith 8y ago
Said skills and tools are both less than common and scale worse. Scale also makes things cheaper counterintuitively to hand crafting. If you have say a drill press that can easily drill every hole at once it makes for better logistics to just drill every hole and stock them than keeping a ton of variants or worse drilling on demand. I can certainly understand that mental blindspot however given I can't help but think of enterprise software as drastically overpriced for stuff I could slap together myself.

by delbel 8y ago

Koshkin 8y ago

I think one of the points is to be able to build things without the need of expensive/extensive tooling.

snarfy 8y ago
There is a middle ground. I make quite a bit of stuff out of square and angled aluminum stock using only a few basic tools - drill, file, hack saw, propane torch, and aluminum brazing rods. I would use open modular hardware if it were available everywhere like plain metal stock is, but it's not so I've learned to improvise.

jacquesm 8y ago

I see your point, there are a lot of tools required for that approach though and those tools are expensive and will see - at best - part time use making each of those welds and cuts a relatively expensive affair. If you're doing production work then sure, you will need that kind of optimization to stay in business. But if instead you are looking to produce one-offs with relatively low skill and a limited amount of money to spend on tooling then I totally see the point in making things from re-usable and easy to size components. And then there is the garbage disposal element: almost none of this is waste, even at the end of life of the original object. The same goes for Lego, all it is is parts, and parts have a life of their own (in the decades!) that is totally different from the life of the objects made from them (minutes to several years). So the over-design and the over-thinking go towards doing that work once so that the users of the system won't need a tools budget in the 10's of thousands of dollars (welder, plasmacutter, grinder, machine shop to go with it) and still build functional equipment that is not readily available. As for how sturdy the bed frame looks: that's mostly a function of the design of the frame, not of the parts that went into it (Ikea sells kids bedframes that look quite close to what is shown in the article), you could do a much better job if you wanted to with the same parts. I also note a lot of 'cheating' where the system doesn't work anymore (for instance: the stays to stabilize the bed and the legs under the sled).

zrobotics 8y ago
Most if these systems looks similar to meccano, so anyone w/ access to a drill and measure could actually make stronger parts. And the strength concern is all the holes weakening the very spindly looking frames. I'm not bored enough to do the stress calcs, but it doesn't look sturdy enough that I'd trust a kid on that bed.
delbel 8y ago
I buy the cheapest tools I think if I remember right, here's what I got 170 AMP harbor freight welder -- $125 160 AMP Arc welder, amazon $199 CUT-50 Plasma $225 Pizza style air compressor, on sale HF $49 this weekend Angle grinders - I have a bunch $39-59 Anyway I need these tools because I am constantly breaking my farm equipment. Also, instead of diddling around with things I just tack weld things, like my plow blade broke off I couldn't find the bolt so I just welded it in a few spots. The CUT-50 and the cheap AC/DC arc welder are the best tools, but I use the MIG welder as my first go-to I "modified" the arc welder to make small metal molds in a carbon crucible. I use aluminum, but it will melt steel. I can lathe/mill that to what I need. I also have the cheapest HF mini lathe and a nicer mill. So yeah all this stuff cost me $2000-$3000 but I use it. I also have a completely different CNC setup. They made a kit called the Elektor set in the 1940s-50s, my dad gave me, it is the same concept as this post.
- kennywinker 8y ago
  That sounds like a very useful skill to have. I’d love to learn, but like so many people I live in small apartment - so this kind of garage workshop stuff doesn’t work well for me. I do occasional small woodworking projects on my balcony, but it requires a lot of forethought and planning... e.g. mostly hand tools, and i can’t just buy an extra sheet of plywood in case I need it.
  - delbel 8y ago
    First thing I do whenever I move is change my Dryer to a NEMA welder plug and outlet. You can sort of use your dryer as a work bench. They make this mini arc welder that is really small for $140, I've been trying to justify owning two arc welder to just try it. But they all use the same NEMA plug, you just need to switch your dryer over to it and you're good.

Nasrudith 8y ago

Said skills and tools are both less than common and scale worse. Scale also makes things cheaper counterintuitively to hand crafting. If you have say a drill press that can easily drill every hole at once it makes for better logistics to just drill every hole and stock them than keeping a ton of variants or worse drilling on demand. I can certainly understand that mental blindspot however given I can't help but think of enterprise software as drastically overpriced for stuff I could slap together myself.