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>>>If you have a small town, then cars are a better option than transit. [...] >W[h]ere did that came from? In a small town, you can get by fine with walking,

by scythe 8y ago

>>>If you have a small town, then cars are a better option than transit. [...] >W[h]ere did that came from? In a small town, you can get by fine with walking, bikes and so on This isn't really the point. Sure, you can build a small town which prioritizes walking over cars. There are even examples in the US, such as Helen, Georgia. However, most people (US) would not prefer to live in such a town. In Europe, those towns are already in place, and people already live there.

coldtea 8y ago
>However, most people (US) would not prefer to live in such a town. Citation needed. Most people in the US were never given the chance to live in such a town (all other things being equal, like them being able to afford to live there). And there's also the cultural conditioning. Besides, there are rich areas in the US too, with little to no cars and lotsa walking and jogging, and people go live there just fine, paying millions for a house there too. I know plenty who'd kill to live in Manhattan (and not drive, like bona fide Manhattanites) but can't afford to precisely because too many want to live there and since it's an island not much further expansion is possible.
- mwfunk 8y ago
  Well, either that or you're the one who's been culturally conditioned. You're posting on HN after all. :) I would personally prefer to live someplace like Manhattan than amongst suburban sprawl, but I'm in the minority of basically everyone I've known all my life (which is also anecdotal of course).
  - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
    The relative prices of urban vs suburban housing pretty definitively shows that more people want to live in urban settings than can currently be accommodated. The free market clearly wants more urban housing but is prevented from supplying it by government intervention.
- scythe 8y ago
  >Citation needed. There is no need for a citation for such a claim. It is well within the boundaries of my personal experience. I live in America, I have known lots of people, and I've become familiar with what they want. >And there's also the cultural conditioning. People should only be conditioned to live the ways you want them to, of course. It's only "cultural conditioning" when you don't like it.
  - black_puppydog 8y ago
    And citations are only needed when something is in contradiction to your experience? :)
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >People should only be conditioned to live the ways you want them to, of course. It's only "cultural conditioning" when you don't like it. Or you know, conditioning can go either way, and a society should decide what's better (including for the environment) and push for one or the other. Suburban sprawl, wastelands designed around traffic, obese citizens who seldom walk anywhere, no urban center for communities to meat, and unfriendly crime ridden cities don't seem to work that well...

by scythe 8y ago

coldtea 8y ago

>However, most people (US) would not prefer to live in such a town. Citation needed. Most people in the US were never given the chance to live in such a town (all other things being equal, like them being able to afford to live there). And there's also the cultural conditioning. Besides, there are rich areas in the US too, with little to no cars and lotsa walking and jogging, and people go live there just fine, paying millions for a house there too. I know plenty who'd kill to live in Manhattan (and not drive, like bona fide Manhattanites) but can't afford to precisely because too many want to live there and since it's an island not much further expansion is possible.

mwfunk 8y ago
Well, either that or you're the one who's been culturally conditioned. You're posting on HN after all. :) I would personally prefer to live someplace like Manhattan than amongst suburban sprawl, but I'm in the minority of basically everyone I've known all my life (which is also anecdotal of course).
- TheCoelacanth 8y ago
  The relative prices of urban vs suburban housing pretty definitively shows that more people want to live in urban settings than can currently be accommodated. The free market clearly wants more urban housing but is prevented from supplying it by government intervention.
scythe 8y ago
>Citation needed. There is no need for a citation for such a claim. It is well within the boundaries of my personal experience. I live in America, I have known lots of people, and I've become familiar with what they want. >And there's also the cultural conditioning. People should only be conditioned to live the ways you want them to, of course. It's only "cultural conditioning" when you don't like it.
- black_puppydog 8y ago
  And citations are only needed when something is in contradiction to your experience? :)
- coldtea 8y ago
  >People should only be conditioned to live the ways you want them to, of course. It's only "cultural conditioning" when you don't like it. Or you know, conditioning can go either way, and a society should decide what's better (including for the environment) and push for one or the other. Suburban sprawl, wastelands designed around traffic, obese citizens who seldom walk anywhere, no urban center for communities to meat, and unfriendly crime ridden cities don't seem to work that well...