4 ms·

>ultimately concluding the Polish data regulator would probably rule one way and the French the other Wait, this is being handled on the national level??? I th

>ultimately concluding the Polish data regulator would probably rule one way and the French the other Wait, this is being handled on the national level??? I thought you guys had some singular EU court thing for this, not a clusterF of the different countries' justice systems.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> this is being handled on the national level? Yup, each of the EU's twenty-eight member states have a national data regular who is responsible for interpreting the law. One can appeal to EU courts. But the local context must be considered.
- merb 8y ago
  it's worse. in germany the dsvgo (german gdpr) will be regulated by the states of germany, i.e. every state has his own regulation administration. which means that there will be even more room for interpretation. in the end the gdpr is more about opening new jobs. also sites like: http://www.spiegel.de/ http://www.spiegel.de/ or https://www.bild.de/ https://www.bild.de/ do not care about the gdpr/dsvgo... so it won't happen that there will be many groundbreaking changes on how the governments will see privacy issues. at the end they just wanted to scare of the silicion valley.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Is GDPR that much different from the Bundesdatenschutzgesetz? Maybe those sites were compliant already.
    - merb 8y ago
      GDPR forces Opt-In these sites use Opt-Out mechanisms and save a lot of PII Data that can clearly connect to a real person.
      - chopin 8y ago
        These companies were in violation of the Bundesdatenschutzgesetz. It mandates information minimization which many fail to adhere to. The problem is more with enforcement, which was (is) weak. GDPR in fact is seen more lax (by our privacy prtection authorities) than the Bundesdatenschutzgesetz but it has more teeth.
- matco11 8y ago
  A business that operate in, say, Germany, reports to the German authority. A business that operates in 10 EU countries, can declare which one is the major country for them, and they have to deal only with the authority in that one country.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    That's not how my lawyer explained it to me. They said that I was liable for violating privacy laws, or the opinion of the regulator, in any German state, even though I am a US company. And it doesn't matter if I have an EU subsidiary and I declare a major country. Maybe your lawyer has a different opinion, but they tell me I shouldn't go hire the lawyer that says what I want to hear.
- the-pigeon 8y ago
  I thought the whole point of the EU having laws like this was to avoid having a ton of variations by country.
  - sfifs 8y ago
    The whole point of EU is to garner trade advantage by negotiating as a block instead of as small countries when they saw large countries like US, USSR and China get negotiating power. It is also to not have any tarrifs and free movement of labor internally. Everything else has been iffy at best. EU is not a federal nation like US or India
    - thefounder 8y ago
      There is a EU law(such GDRP) that all member states must transpose into their state legislation. A citizen of a "foreign" member state enjoys the same rights as the "local" citizen. The point if EU is/was to achieve an "ever closer union" so that war between European states would never happen again. It's not just an economic bloc. Btw the immigration is the main issue which has nothing to do with trading.
  - thefounder 8y ago
    The European Court of Justice has the final say. As far as I know the local(supreme) courts ask the ECJ for an opinion if they think their local law could be incompatible the the EU law. The EU laws such GDRP must be transposed by the menber states but they may have slight variations(i.e. the amount of fines)
  - Aengeuad 8y ago
    The GDPR does remove variation between countries, before the GDPR each of the 28 member states would have had their own data protection laws and while you wouldn't have had to comply with all of them the only law you generally have to comply with under the GDPR is... the GDPR, plus or minus some minor opt-in or opt-outs that some member states may choose. It's one piece of legislation that is a hell of a lot more navigable and accessible than 28 different pieces of legislation. What the poster above is lamenting over is that each member state is in charge of their own investigatory authority, and this makes a lot of sense, if you have a data leak that affects only Spanish citizens you wouldn't want the investigation being carried out by a country like Sweden or even by the EU itself. However if a data leak affects multiple member state citizens each of those member states are invited to and can enter a joint investigation. The issue they believe is that France may have a stricter interpretation of the law than a country like Poland which may make cooperating with the law more difficult as you don't know how strict to be, and while this certainly is going to be the case it's not so different from any other facet of life - In the US you may favour a certain state to be prosecuted in, you may prefer to have a different prosecutor or judge, etc.
- Mirioron 8y ago
  And in some countries that agency employs a dozen to two dozen people total. In other words, it's entirely possible to get screwed because somebody doesn't like you.
TazeTSchnitzel 8y ago
The EU court sets binding precedents across the Union, but the law is still enforced at a national level and discrepancies can arise and take time to be cleared up. There's also the fact that Union law is not perfectly uniform in any case, there are national differences where they go beyond the minimum requirements of Union law.
wutbrodo 8y ago
HN as a community is so defensive about the wisdom and necessity of the spirit of the law (which isn't an unreasonably position) that a lot of commenters reflexively reject any claim that the implementation may leave something to be desired (just see the top comment in this thread). It's entirely unsurprising to me that the EU implemented this sloppily, for the simple reason that legislators all over the world are shitty at understanding tech, and sweeping changes have a high prior likelihood of being poorly implemented.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> this is being handled on the national level? Yup, each of the EU's twenty-eight member states have a national data regular who is responsible for interpreting the law. One can appeal to EU courts. But the local context must be considered.

merb 8y ago
it's worse. in germany the dsvgo (german gdpr) will be regulated by the states of germany, i.e. every state has his own regulation administration. which means that there will be even more room for interpretation. in the end the gdpr is more about opening new jobs. also sites like: http://www.spiegel.de/ http://www.spiegel.de/ or https://www.bild.de/ https://www.bild.de/ do not care about the gdpr/dsvgo... so it won't happen that there will be many groundbreaking changes on how the governments will see privacy issues. at the end they just wanted to scare of the silicion valley.
- adrianN 8y ago
  Is GDPR that much different from the Bundesdatenschutzgesetz? Maybe those sites were compliant already.
  - merb 8y ago
    GDPR forces Opt-In these sites use Opt-Out mechanisms and save a lot of PII Data that can clearly connect to a real person.
    - chopin 8y ago
      These companies were in violation of the Bundesdatenschutzgesetz. It mandates information minimization which many fail to adhere to. The problem is more with enforcement, which was (is) weak. GDPR in fact is seen more lax (by our privacy prtection authorities) than the Bundesdatenschutzgesetz but it has more teeth.
matco11 8y ago
A business that operate in, say, Germany, reports to the German authority. A business that operates in 10 EU countries, can declare which one is the major country for them, and they have to deal only with the authority in that one country.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  That's not how my lawyer explained it to me. They said that I was liable for violating privacy laws, or the opinion of the regulator, in any German state, even though I am a US company. And it doesn't matter if I have an EU subsidiary and I declare a major country. Maybe your lawyer has a different opinion, but they tell me I shouldn't go hire the lawyer that says what I want to hear.
the-pigeon 8y ago
I thought the whole point of the EU having laws like this was to avoid having a ton of variations by country.
- sfifs 8y ago
  The whole point of EU is to garner trade advantage by negotiating as a block instead of as small countries when they saw large countries like US, USSR and China get negotiating power. It is also to not have any tarrifs and free movement of labor internally. Everything else has been iffy at best. EU is not a federal nation like US or India
  - thefounder 8y ago
    There is a EU law(such GDRP) that all member states must transpose into their state legislation. A citizen of a "foreign" member state enjoys the same rights as the "local" citizen. The point if EU is/was to achieve an "ever closer union" so that war between European states would never happen again. It's not just an economic bloc. Btw the immigration is the main issue which has nothing to do with trading.
- thefounder 8y ago
  The European Court of Justice has the final say. As far as I know the local(supreme) courts ask the ECJ for an opinion if they think their local law could be incompatible the the EU law. The EU laws such GDRP must be transposed by the menber states but they may have slight variations(i.e. the amount of fines)
- Aengeuad 8y ago
  The GDPR does remove variation between countries, before the GDPR each of the 28 member states would have had their own data protection laws and while you wouldn't have had to comply with all of them the only law you generally have to comply with under the GDPR is... the GDPR, plus or minus some minor opt-in or opt-outs that some member states may choose. It's one piece of legislation that is a hell of a lot more navigable and accessible than 28 different pieces of legislation. What the poster above is lamenting over is that each member state is in charge of their own investigatory authority, and this makes a lot of sense, if you have a data leak that affects only Spanish citizens you wouldn't want the investigation being carried out by a country like Sweden or even by the EU itself. However if a data leak affects multiple member state citizens each of those member states are invited to and can enter a joint investigation. The issue they believe is that France may have a stricter interpretation of the law than a country like Poland which may make cooperating with the law more difficult as you don't know how strict to be, and while this certainly is going to be the case it's not so different from any other facet of life - In the US you may favour a certain state to be prosecuted in, you may prefer to have a different prosecutor or judge, etc.
Mirioron 8y ago
And in some countries that agency employs a dozen to two dozen people total. In other words, it's entirely possible to get screwed because somebody doesn't like you.

TazeTSchnitzel 8y ago

The EU court sets binding precedents across the Union, but the law is still enforced at a national level and discrepancies can arise and take time to be cleared up. There's also the fact that Union law is not perfectly uniform in any case, there are national differences where they go beyond the minimum requirements of Union law.

wutbrodo 8y ago

HN as a community is so defensive about the wisdom and necessity of the spirit of the law (which isn't an unreasonably position) that a lot of commenters reflexively reject any claim that the implementation may leave something to be desired (just see the top comment in this thread). It's entirely unsurprising to me that the EU implemented this sloppily, for the simple reason that legislators all over the world are shitty at understanding tech, and sweeping changes have a high prior likelihood of being poorly implemented.