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All the time. They tried to make a move into retail registers to compete with Square, and failed. They shuttered Amazon register in 2015: https://bits.blogs.ny

All the time. They tried to make a move into retail registers to compete with Square, and failed. They shuttered Amazon register in 2015: https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/10/30/amazon-shutting-down-its-register-credit-card-processor/ https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/10/30/amazon-shutting-do... They tried to take on Etsy with Amazon Handmade which bombed Etsy stock, but Handmade has gone pretty much nowhere, except some re-branding this year. People just forget Amazon's failed ventures, even fairly high profile ones, because there are so many, and the hits sometimes so large (like AWS). Quoting myself from April: > Amazon's ethos of "Announce fast, Release fast, if it fails, oh well" is intentional. From Bezos' point of view, this is actually a feature. In a shareholder letter in 2016, he called Amazon "The best place in the world to fail." He wants lots of teams working on lots of products, and if some of them don't pan out, that's OK. This has lead to a lot of successes, but also a number of small headaches for consumers who use products that are quickly discontinued and (charitably) forgotten.

cabaalis 8y ago
> They tried to take on Etsy with Amazon Handmade which bombed Etsy stock, but Handmade has gone pretty much nowhere, except some re-branding this year. Is severely damaging another online vendor really a failure for Amazon? It seems to me at that level, revenue from a venture is not always the only measure of success.
- simonsarris 8y ago
  I had wondered that. Disclaimer, I'm long SQ. If you're following AMZN, SQ, or PYPL, you probably saw the headlines back in April: Amazon's Next Mission: Using Alexa to Help You Pay Friends Firm looks to make voice commands the next wave of commerce SQ and PYPL took a small dive on this news, even though at face value, its quite silly. Amazon would probably have a much better time trying to buy PayPal for Venmo or Square for Cash App but also to compete in the small-biz transaction field that Amazon tried and gave up on. Building out such a service based on Alexa users is wacky, and there doesn't seem to be a pressing need to let loose your wallet via voice. Personally, I think it's somewhat unlikely that AMZN would acquire PYPL due to a clash of cultures when it comes to customer service. (Amazon's: Very good. PayPal's: Legendarily evil). This reputation may also be the reason PayPal has kept their own name off of their Venmo acquisition product until very recently. I think there is a very slight chance that AMZN would try to acquire SQ. It would allow them to really break into small-vendor retail where they have failed with homegrown solutions before, and give them instant access to a growing P2P transaction market. Everybody loves to speculate about such acquisitions, though. ...But it would certainly be funny if the only reason Amazon made that press release was to butter up one of those two companies for acquisition, either by decreasing their share value or exerting pressure on them internally to agree to a deal before they face Amazon's competition.
  - pm90 8y ago
    Its hard to discern what they were thinking of. But I feel like you are overthinking it. Having worked at companies of all sizes, many products are often some executives' pet project to make a splash and other execs just let them do what they want if they're not fucking up other shit too much or taking much needed resources away from other things. Many of the failed ventures may just have been a result of that.
    - simonsarris 8y ago
      I think that's a good counterpoint.
- hbosch 8y ago
  As an aside, Etsy has really more hurt themselves. There is a conversation upthread about counterfeits on Amazon — Etsys problem is the flood of generic Chinese goods on sale as “handmade”.
- thisisit 8y ago
  > Is severely damaging another online vendor really a failure for Amazon? Yes because while Etsy stock dropped by 60% to less than $10 it has recovered back 42 dollars about 3 years later.
- rtkwe 8y ago
  I'm struggling to find exactly where Amazon Handmade 'bombed' Etsy's stock in the first place. It was originally announced in 2015 and expanded later last year but both times Etsy has had a small single digit percentage sell off and recovered. Today they're back to above their IPO numbers even.
- coredog64 8y ago
  I can't recall which book it was, but there was a story about very early Microsoft attempts at pen computing (like mid-90s at the latest). They created some scripted demos that looked great and failed, and another executive said something like "you sure pooched that". The response was "I wasn't trying to score a touchdown. I'm the special teams guy trying to block a kick."
kylestlb 8y ago
And who could forget the Fire Phone debacle?
- greenail 8y ago
  it's not about how big the failure was, it is about how much was learned from it that can be used in the future.
Riesling 8y ago
Two additional quotes from Bezos himself: > "If you double the number of experiments you do per year you’re going to double your inventiveness." > "If you decide that you’re going to do only the things you know are going to work, you’re going to leave a lot of opportunity on the table."
joeax 8y ago
+ I'm wary of Amazon Grocery. We had a bad experience with home delivery 10 years ago and my wife refuses to do it again. For packaged goods and non-perishables it's fine, but with fresh meats and produce it's hit and miss. It may not be failure but I doubt it will kill or disrupt the grocery business.
- xkjkls 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure their grocery business has changed alot in the last 10 years, and will probably change even more with the integration of Whole Foods.
  - Cents 8y ago
    Groceries online make me very happy. I'm a convert. Carts queues and parking are anachronisms. There won't be wide adoption until the customer gets a perfect order with no substitutions or blemishes every time. The psychology of perceived loss at not getting EXACTLY what was ordered is too great. Until then millions of disappointed people will discourage others.
    - jawr 8y ago
      Carts queues and parking still happen, they're just being hidden from you.
      - workinfunk 8y ago
        Only with services like Instacart where they literally pay people to go and do your shopping for you. Real, end-to-end grocery services like FreshDirect do not.
        mac01021 8y ago
        Even then, there are trucks that park somewhere and containers of grocery product queueing up to be loaded into them...
- 8y ago
vpmpaul 8y ago
Dont forget one of their biggest failures. Fire Phone.
atourgates 8y ago
From a consumer adoption standpoint, the only thing standing in Amazon Register's way was a lack of marketing. As a merchant, it was amazing. They offered promotional rate of 1.75%, which is basically impossible to beat for any small business. For context, Square and most "simple pay per swipe" merchant service providers charge 2.75%. If you go out and get a really good deal from a intrchange+ provider, you might be able to get your rate down close to 2%. But Amazon Register got you below that with significantly less hassle, no subscription fees and a $0 equipment cost. My wife used it at her small business for a year, and during that year I loved getting proposals from other banks and merchant service providers. Many had an offer like, "Let us audit your merchant fees, and if we can't beat them, we'll give you a $200 gift card." I always gave them the opportunity to try, but with the caveat that there was no way they could beat our current rates, and I wasn't going to take their money when they failed. Mostly, I just never heard back after they realized I wasn't BS'ing about the fees we were paying. If Amazon Register had been more widely promoted, they could/should have been able to get every credit-card-accepting small business in the country signed up at least for the promotional period. I'd love to see some kind of post-mortem to explain why they didn't.
- DenisM 8y ago
  My credit card cash back is 2.00%, your 1.75% promotional rate was losing them money.
  - misterbwong 8y ago
    There were quite a few people taking advantage of this promotional rate. It was a fun time.
  - dalore 8y ago
    It's 2.00% but with caveats. Usually max limit per year or such.
    - collinmanderson 8y ago
      I have 2% through Citi Double Cash (and yes, it really is 2%, not 1.98%). No caps at all.
Mahn 8y ago
> lots of teams working on lots of products, and if some of them don't pan out, that's OK Basically the modern tech titan mantra. The only company out of the big 5 that isn't doing this is Apple.
- stirlo 8y ago
  I'm sure Apple does too, the only difference is they test internally and squash them before the public knows about them rather than letting them fail in the marketplace.

cabaalis 8y ago

> They tried to take on Etsy with Amazon Handmade which bombed Etsy stock, but Handmade has gone pretty much nowhere, except some re-branding this year. Is severely damaging another online vendor really a failure for Amazon? It seems to me at that level, revenue from a venture is not always the only measure of success.

simonsarris 8y ago
I had wondered that. Disclaimer, I'm long SQ. If you're following AMZN, SQ, or PYPL, you probably saw the headlines back in April: Amazon's Next Mission: Using Alexa to Help You Pay Friends Firm looks to make voice commands the next wave of commerce SQ and PYPL took a small dive on this news, even though at face value, its quite silly. Amazon would probably have a much better time trying to buy PayPal for Venmo or Square for Cash App but also to compete in the small-biz transaction field that Amazon tried and gave up on. Building out such a service based on Alexa users is wacky, and there doesn't seem to be a pressing need to let loose your wallet via voice. Personally, I think it's somewhat unlikely that AMZN would acquire PYPL due to a clash of cultures when it comes to customer service. (Amazon's: Very good. PayPal's: Legendarily evil). This reputation may also be the reason PayPal has kept their own name off of their Venmo acquisition product until very recently. I think there is a very slight chance that AMZN would try to acquire SQ. It would allow them to really break into small-vendor retail where they have failed with homegrown solutions before, and give them instant access to a growing P2P transaction market. Everybody loves to speculate about such acquisitions, though. ...But it would certainly be funny if the only reason Amazon made that press release was to butter up one of those two companies for acquisition, either by decreasing their share value or exerting pressure on them internally to agree to a deal before they face Amazon's competition.
- pm90 8y ago
  Its hard to discern what they were thinking of. But I feel like you are overthinking it. Having worked at companies of all sizes, many products are often some executives' pet project to make a splash and other execs just let them do what they want if they're not fucking up other shit too much or taking much needed resources away from other things. Many of the failed ventures may just have been a result of that.
  - simonsarris 8y ago
    I think that's a good counterpoint.
hbosch 8y ago
As an aside, Etsy has really more hurt themselves. There is a conversation upthread about counterfeits on Amazon — Etsys problem is the flood of generic Chinese goods on sale as “handmade”.
thisisit 8y ago
> Is severely damaging another online vendor really a failure for Amazon? Yes because while Etsy stock dropped by 60% to less than $10 it has recovered back 42 dollars about 3 years later.
rtkwe 8y ago
I'm struggling to find exactly where Amazon Handmade 'bombed' Etsy's stock in the first place. It was originally announced in 2015 and expanded later last year but both times Etsy has had a small single digit percentage sell off and recovered. Today they're back to above their IPO numbers even.
coredog64 8y ago
I can't recall which book it was, but there was a story about very early Microsoft attempts at pen computing (like mid-90s at the latest). They created some scripted demos that looked great and failed, and another executive said something like "you sure pooched that". The response was "I wasn't trying to score a touchdown. I'm the special teams guy trying to block a kick."

kylestlb 8y ago

And who could forget the Fire Phone debacle?

greenail 8y ago
it's not about how big the failure was, it is about how much was learned from it that can be used in the future.

Riesling 8y ago

Two additional quotes from Bezos himself: > "If you double the number of experiments you do per year you’re going to double your inventiveness." > "If you decide that you’re going to do only the things you know are going to work, you’re going to leave a lot of opportunity on the table."

joeax 8y ago

+ I'm wary of Amazon Grocery. We had a bad experience with home delivery 10 years ago and my wife refuses to do it again. For packaged goods and non-perishables it's fine, but with fresh meats and produce it's hit and miss. It may not be failure but I doubt it will kill or disrupt the grocery business.

xkjkls 8y ago
I'm pretty sure their grocery business has changed alot in the last 10 years, and will probably change even more with the integration of Whole Foods.
- Cents 8y ago
  Groceries online make me very happy. I'm a convert. Carts queues and parking are anachronisms. There won't be wide adoption until the customer gets a perfect order with no substitutions or blemishes every time. The psychology of perceived loss at not getting EXACTLY what was ordered is too great. Until then millions of disappointed people will discourage others.
  - jawr 8y ago
    Carts queues and parking still happen, they're just being hidden from you.
    - workinfunk 8y ago
      Only with services like Instacart where they literally pay people to go and do your shopping for you. Real, end-to-end grocery services like FreshDirect do not.
      - mac01021 8y ago
        Even then, there are trucks that park somewhere and containers of grocery product queueing up to be loaded into them...
8y ago

vpmpaul 8y ago

Dont forget one of their biggest failures. Fire Phone.

atourgates 8y ago

From a consumer adoption standpoint, the only thing standing in Amazon Register's way was a lack of marketing. As a merchant, it was amazing. They offered promotional rate of 1.75%, which is basically impossible to beat for any small business. For context, Square and most "simple pay per swipe" merchant service providers charge 2.75%. If you go out and get a really good deal from a intrchange+ provider, you might be able to get your rate down close to 2%. But Amazon Register got you below that with significantly less hassle, no subscription fees and a $0 equipment cost. My wife used it at her small business for a year, and during that year I loved getting proposals from other banks and merchant service providers. Many had an offer like, "Let us audit your merchant fees, and if we can't beat them, we'll give you a $200 gift card." I always gave them the opportunity to try, but with the caveat that there was no way they could beat our current rates, and I wasn't going to take their money when they failed. Mostly, I just never heard back after they realized I wasn't BS'ing about the fees we were paying. If Amazon Register had been more widely promoted, they could/should have been able to get every credit-card-accepting small business in the country signed up at least for the promotional period. I'd love to see some kind of post-mortem to explain why they didn't.

DenisM 8y ago
My credit card cash back is 2.00%, your 1.75% promotional rate was losing them money.
- misterbwong 8y ago
  There were quite a few people taking advantage of this promotional rate. It was a fun time.
- dalore 8y ago
  It's 2.00% but with caveats. Usually max limit per year or such.
  - collinmanderson 8y ago
    I have 2% through Citi Double Cash (and yes, it really is 2%, not 1.98%). No caps at all.

Mahn 8y ago

> lots of teams working on lots of products, and if some of them don't pan out, that's OK Basically the modern tech titan mantra. The only company out of the big 5 that isn't doing this is Apple.

stirlo 8y ago
I'm sure Apple does too, the only difference is they test internally and squash them before the public knows about them rather than letting them fail in the marketplace.