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I think in a few years, if the complexity of cloud infrastructure management is reduced, and its level of abstraction raised, it might make sense to me develope

I think in a few years, if the complexity of cloud infrastructure management is reduced, and its level of abstraction raised, it might make sense to me developers do this work. But if I'm trying to build some software app in a complex domain, and the infrastructure tooling requires me to configure network routing rules, CIDR blocks, etc., that seems like a huge failure to me, almost like having the developers grow their own crops for sustenance or something, rather than having people specialize in that and leveraging division of labor.

scarface74 8y ago
How so? I just had to setup security groups and subnets to make an implementation I was starting work. Why would I want to wait on the “infrastructure guys” to do it when I could set it up myself in the dev environment test it, create a cloud formation template and if I needed to, run it through the other environments.
- arwhatever 8y ago
  Your brain has limited capacity. You didn't learn about the security group and subnet configuration in zero time, and most particularly not cloud formation templates. Meanwhile, both the infrastructure and application development frameworks are both getting revved and changed out from under you frequently.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    One reason I really haven’t attempted to keep up with front end development outside of JavaScript/CSS/HTML is because things change so much. On the backend, things don’t change nearly as often, but you get additional features. Your previous knowledge is not made obsolete.
    - arwhatever 8y ago
      Part of my perceptions were likely shaped by my previous employer, which was completely schizophrenic, technology-wise. We were never allowed to complete anything, and I think our performance was measured on how quickly we could become 30% proficient with some new technology stack before our work-in-progress would be tossed out and we were redirected to work on something totally unfamiliar. Rinse, repeat. It really made me yearn for just a year or two of competence and productivity on some set task in between having the rug pulled out from under us.
eropple 8y ago
When I lay out a new application I'm totally thinking about stuff like network topology because that's part of my security posture with regards to my software, and security is part of application design. Your infrastructure is part of your software.

scarface74 8y ago

How so? I just had to setup security groups and subnets to make an implementation I was starting work. Why would I want to wait on the “infrastructure guys” to do it when I could set it up myself in the dev environment test it, create a cloud formation template and if I needed to, run it through the other environments.

arwhatever 8y ago
Your brain has limited capacity. You didn't learn about the security group and subnet configuration in zero time, and most particularly not cloud formation templates. Meanwhile, both the infrastructure and application development frameworks are both getting revved and changed out from under you frequently.
- scarface74 8y ago
  One reason I really haven’t attempted to keep up with front end development outside of JavaScript/CSS/HTML is because things change so much. On the backend, things don’t change nearly as often, but you get additional features. Your previous knowledge is not made obsolete.
  - arwhatever 8y ago
    Part of my perceptions were likely shaped by my previous employer, which was completely schizophrenic, technology-wise. We were never allowed to complete anything, and I think our performance was measured on how quickly we could become 30% proficient with some new technology stack before our work-in-progress would be tossed out and we were redirected to work on something totally unfamiliar. Rinse, repeat. It really made me yearn for just a year or two of competence and productivity on some set task in between having the rug pulled out from under us.

eropple 8y ago

When I lay out a new application I'm totally thinking about stuff like network topology because that's part of my security posture with regards to my software, and security is part of application design. Your infrastructure is part of your software.