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So everyone thinks that cause Bitcoin is down from its high that it was a bad investment? The top has been reached and it's all downhill from here? Nobody who

So everyone thinks that cause Bitcoin is down from its high that it was a bad investment? The top has been reached and it's all downhill from here? Nobody who invested 1+ years ago is down so save your judgements for the future.

sunir 8y ago
That’s bubble investing. Watching the face value only. Is the face value of Bitcoin higher or lower than its economic utility value? What is the economic utility of Bitcoin? I think that is the real underlying unresolved question that creates volatility. The market is unclear and so can’t set a price objectively.
prepend 8y ago
It depends on your perspective. A lot of people bought in 3 or 6 months ago and aren’t happy. Of course people who did that weren’t used to speculating and so are unhappy now that they lost substantial sums. It’s significant news, but not really changing any of the fundamentals that I see. Bitcoin will become a useful currency when it is stable for long periods of time. It doesn’t matter if that consistency is at 6k or 20k or 10.
tapoxi 8y ago
I just don't understand what the purpose of Bitcoin is. Everyone seems to be treating it as an investment, but its use as a currency doesn't seem to have obvious advantages over cash. Its value fluctuates wildly, transaction processing takes forever, every purchase you make is public record, the price is easily manipulated, and it takes a ton of electricity to operate. What's the end goal of Bitcoin? What makes it worth investing in?
- rsynnott 8y ago
  Greater fool theory; "I'm buying this thing early, so that when it hits the mainstream a load of naive people will buy it and boost my value". That has probably largely passed now, though; I see train station ads to buy bitcoin all the time. I'd be somewhat surprised if it ever goes back to its beginning-of-year heights.
  - singularity2001 8y ago
    There might come one last hype cycle when/if the rest of the world (EU) enters a mainstream BTC hype. The last one was mostly US. Or the network could collapse to 0 before.
    - Vrixam 8y ago
      Bitcoin was quite a hype in the EU around December last year, with it being talked about in bars, at the hairdresser etc. And people putting all their money in of course.
    - rsynnott 8y ago
      The train and tram stations in Dublin were covered in etoro crypto trading ads a while back, so I think it’s been and gone in Europe. And I believe it’s already had its day in China and Korea. Africa, maybe? South America? I doubt there’s much there, to be honest.
  - lucidlive 8y ago
    They said the same exact thing when Bitcoin went from $1k back down to $300.
    - jstandard 8y ago
      What made it rise from $300 to current day prices? What price do you think reflects it's real value? Why is it worth that price?
- CaptainZapp 8y ago
  I could be wrong and certainly was wrong before, but I believe that what we're seeing here is the biggest game of musical chairs, ever. There will be a lot of hurt when the music stops, represented by not finding anymore "investors" to fuel the hype. In other words: I think you're spot-on!
  - rsynnott 8y ago
    > but I believe that what we're seeing here is the biggest game of musical chairs, ever. Nothing like it; the amount of money invested isn't huge. It's nowhere near as scary as the various national mortgage bubbles in the noughties. When it collapses, damage will be limited.
    - CaptainZapp 8y ago
      On reconsideration you definitely have a point here. I still believe there will be a lot of hurt for a lot of people. As I saud I may be wrong and virtually slap myself for not having jumped into the fray, when it was "only" 6000$. (small edit: Typos [damn mobile screens])
      - rsynnott 8y ago
        Oh, sure, it’ll hurt a lot of people who gambled on it. It already has. But it’s not a systemic risk.
- lucidlive 8y ago
  Bitcoin is a store of value. And it's among the fastest, cheapest ways to send money worldwide. As we all know, there is a limit to the number of Bitcoins thus people think the value will increase with demand. I'm not a Bitcoin investor. But I do buy other alt coins. All the points you mentioned are valid but are constantly being improved upon.

sunir 8y ago

That’s bubble investing. Watching the face value only. Is the face value of Bitcoin higher or lower than its economic utility value? What is the economic utility of Bitcoin? I think that is the real underlying unresolved question that creates volatility. The market is unclear and so can’t set a price objectively.

prepend 8y ago

It depends on your perspective. A lot of people bought in 3 or 6 months ago and aren’t happy. Of course people who did that weren’t used to speculating and so are unhappy now that they lost substantial sums. It’s significant news, but not really changing any of the fundamentals that I see. Bitcoin will become a useful currency when it is stable for long periods of time. It doesn’t matter if that consistency is at 6k or 20k or 10.

tapoxi 8y ago

I just don't understand what the purpose of Bitcoin is. Everyone seems to be treating it as an investment, but its use as a currency doesn't seem to have obvious advantages over cash. Its value fluctuates wildly, transaction processing takes forever, every purchase you make is public record, the price is easily manipulated, and it takes a ton of electricity to operate. What's the end goal of Bitcoin? What makes it worth investing in?

rsynnott 8y ago
Greater fool theory; "I'm buying this thing early, so that when it hits the mainstream a load of naive people will buy it and boost my value". That has probably largely passed now, though; I see train station ads to buy bitcoin all the time. I'd be somewhat surprised if it ever goes back to its beginning-of-year heights.
- singularity2001 8y ago
  There might come one last hype cycle when/if the rest of the world (EU) enters a mainstream BTC hype. The last one was mostly US. Or the network could collapse to 0 before.
  - Vrixam 8y ago
    Bitcoin was quite a hype in the EU around December last year, with it being talked about in bars, at the hairdresser etc. And people putting all their money in of course.
  - rsynnott 8y ago
    The train and tram stations in Dublin were covered in etoro crypto trading ads a while back, so I think it’s been and gone in Europe. And I believe it’s already had its day in China and Korea. Africa, maybe? South America? I doubt there’s much there, to be honest.
- lucidlive 8y ago
  They said the same exact thing when Bitcoin went from $1k back down to $300.
  - jstandard 8y ago
    What made it rise from $300 to current day prices? What price do you think reflects it's real value? Why is it worth that price?
CaptainZapp 8y ago
I could be wrong and certainly was wrong before, but I believe that what we're seeing here is the biggest game of musical chairs, ever. There will be a lot of hurt when the music stops, represented by not finding anymore "investors" to fuel the hype. In other words: I think you're spot-on!
- rsynnott 8y ago
  > but I believe that what we're seeing here is the biggest game of musical chairs, ever. Nothing like it; the amount of money invested isn't huge. It's nowhere near as scary as the various national mortgage bubbles in the noughties. When it collapses, damage will be limited.
  - CaptainZapp 8y ago
    On reconsideration you definitely have a point here. I still believe there will be a lot of hurt for a lot of people. As I saud I may be wrong and virtually slap myself for not having jumped into the fray, when it was "only" 6000$. (small edit: Typos [damn mobile screens])
    - rsynnott 8y ago
      Oh, sure, it’ll hurt a lot of people who gambled on it. It already has. But it’s not a systemic risk.
lucidlive 8y ago
Bitcoin is a store of value. And it's among the fastest, cheapest ways to send money worldwide. As we all know, there is a limit to the number of Bitcoins thus people think the value will increase with demand. I'm not a Bitcoin investor. But I do buy other alt coins. All the points you mentioned are valid but are constantly being improved upon.