4 ms·

Technically no, not exactly. It’s intel’s fault. Their damn architectures won’t support DDR4LP - that’s the low power variant - because they’ve become complacen

by eecc 8y ago

Technically no, not exactly. It’s intel’s fault. Their damn architectures won’t support DDR4LP - that’s the low power variant - because they’ve become complacent. Also the lack of PCIe lanes forced Apples’s hand on USBc only design, although it’s such a daft choice they should’ve just gone with 2 TB ports and keep the other “legacy” available. But no, they had to brag about dual 4K external monitors to it had to be 4 USBc ports and nothing else. I’m seriously worried that the platform I’ve been so comfortable with the past 10 years will fall in disrepair because of some ill-advised management that chose to chase some other innovation... It’s another problem I don’t need

mamon 8y ago
There's a simple solution for the lack of DDR4LP: end the "thinner and lighter" insanity and provide normal DDR4 with a decent battery capacity by making the laptop 2mm thicker and 0.5 pound heavier.
- acdha 8y ago
  I’d cut Apple some slack on the RAM front because Intel was supposed to ship DDR4LP a couple years ago, after years of being fairly good about hitting targets. The larger point about recognizing that we’ve plateaued on size & weight benefits is important, though. As long as we need keyboards there’s not much point in taking on all of the other compromises.
  - mamon 8y ago
    Ironically, it was Steve Jobs' pep talk to new executives that went something like: "The difference between a janitor and executive is that VPs are not allowed to have excuses". So trying to share the blame with Intel is just silly. Every single Apple's competitor delivers laptops with 32+ GB of RAM, and MacBooks are stuck at 16GB and there's no one to blame for it but Apple.
    - masklinn 8y ago
      > Every single Apple's competitor delivers laptops with 32+ GB of RAM, and MacBooks are stuck at 16GB and there's no one to blame for it but Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Book_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Book_2
    - acdha 8y ago
      > Every single Apple's competitor delivers laptops with 32+ GB of RAM, and MacBooks are stuck at 16GB and there's no one to blame for it but Apple. This is only partially correct: those are separate models which are bigger and have worse power and heat characteristics. Every laptop which is similar to Apple's shares the 16GB limit for the same reason; the difference is that Apple has decided not to offer that second tier.
      - coryfklein 8y ago
        > Apple has decided not to offer that second tier MacBook Pro, a first-tier plaything. If they do finally release a "second tier", what the hell are they going to call it? MacBook Super Pro?
        andromeduck 8y ago
        I'd imagine they'd call it Macbook Pro 17"
      - markmark 8y ago
        Dell's XPS is comparable in size and performance to the MBP and has 32Gb of RAM available. Does the standard DDR4 they use effect battery life? Possibly, but that's a trade off I and others would take for our $4000 laptops not to grind to a halt when we spin up a few docker containers.
- eecc 8y ago
  Mah, there’s a mobile standard optimized for that use case... not using it because intel can’t get their act together would be asinine. I’d be shocked if there weren’t any Ryzen prototypes running in Cupertino, with daily performance test results CC’d to intel account managers. I’d to just that...
  - peatmoss 8y ago
    Part of the reason for Apple betting big on Intel was power efficiency. But with Ryzen going to 7nm before Intel makes it to 11nm(?) reliably, I have to think that Ryzen with integrated GPU starts looking damned attractive.
- kristofferR 8y ago
  It's impossible to provide decent battery life in a laptop with normal DDR4, it uses 80% more battery in standby: https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/ https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/
  - Joeri 8y ago
    It’s possible by hibernating faster, which is the strategy lenovo used in my t460p with 32 gb ddr4. The downside is that leaving it with a closed lid for ten minutes makes waking it up a 5 to 10 second affair instead of instant.
  - markmark 8y ago
    "DDR4 would drastically decrease it from the 30 days of standby time that they get now to less than one week" Fine, I'll take 32Gb of RAM and a less than a week of standby time thanks.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
bogomipz 8y ago
>"Also the lack of PCIe lanes forced Apples’s hand on USBc only design," Can you elaborate on this? Is this related to DDR4LP? Is there a connection?
- pixl97 8y ago
  >Also the lack of PCIe lanes https://ark.intel.com/products/97462/Intel-Core-i7-7920HQ-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_10-GHz https://ark.intel.com/products/97462/Intel-Core-i7-7920HQ-Pr... I don't think PCIe lanes and low power ram are directly related, but it is just another sign of Intel attempting to control the market via feature segregation. The CPU only has 16 PCIe lanes. Which is flat out retarded when 4 of them will be used by NVMe, and 8 (and really 16 should be) can be used by video. This only leaves 4 additional PCIe lanes for any other devices, including USB-C and thunderbolt. Simply put, if there were any competition in the market, that CPU look much different. Low power ram and 8 more PCIe lanes at least.

by eecc 8y ago

mamon 8y ago

There's a simple solution for the lack of DDR4LP: end the "thinner and lighter" insanity and provide normal DDR4 with a decent battery capacity by making the laptop 2mm thicker and 0.5 pound heavier.

acdha 8y ago
I’d cut Apple some slack on the RAM front because Intel was supposed to ship DDR4LP a couple years ago, after years of being fairly good about hitting targets. The larger point about recognizing that we’ve plateaued on size & weight benefits is important, though. As long as we need keyboards there’s not much point in taking on all of the other compromises.
- mamon 8y ago
  Ironically, it was Steve Jobs' pep talk to new executives that went something like: "The difference between a janitor and executive is that VPs are not allowed to have excuses". So trying to share the blame with Intel is just silly. Every single Apple's competitor delivers laptops with 32+ GB of RAM, and MacBooks are stuck at 16GB and there's no one to blame for it but Apple.
  - masklinn 8y ago
    > Every single Apple's competitor delivers laptops with 32+ GB of RAM, and MacBooks are stuck at 16GB and there's no one to blame for it but Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Book_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Book_2
  - acdha 8y ago
    > Every single Apple's competitor delivers laptops with 32+ GB of RAM, and MacBooks are stuck at 16GB and there's no one to blame for it but Apple. This is only partially correct: those are separate models which are bigger and have worse power and heat characteristics. Every laptop which is similar to Apple's shares the 16GB limit for the same reason; the difference is that Apple has decided not to offer that second tier.
    - coryfklein 8y ago
      > Apple has decided not to offer that second tier MacBook Pro, a first-tier plaything. If they do finally release a "second tier", what the hell are they going to call it? MacBook Super Pro?
      - andromeduck 8y ago
        I'd imagine they'd call it Macbook Pro 17"
    - markmark 8y ago
      Dell's XPS is comparable in size and performance to the MBP and has 32Gb of RAM available. Does the standard DDR4 they use effect battery life? Possibly, but that's a trade off I and others would take for our $4000 laptops not to grind to a halt when we spin up a few docker containers.
eecc 8y ago
Mah, there’s a mobile standard optimized for that use case... not using it because intel can’t get their act together would be asinine. I’d be shocked if there weren’t any Ryzen prototypes running in Cupertino, with daily performance test results CC’d to intel account managers. I’d to just that...
- peatmoss 8y ago
  Part of the reason for Apple betting big on Intel was power efficiency. But with Ryzen going to 7nm before Intel makes it to 11nm(?) reliably, I have to think that Ryzen with integrated GPU starts looking damned attractive.
kristofferR 8y ago
It's impossible to provide decent battery life in a laptop with normal DDR4, it uses 80% more battery in standby: https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/ https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/
- Joeri 8y ago
  It’s possible by hibernating faster, which is the strategy lenovo used in my t460p with 32 gb ddr4. The downside is that leaving it with a closed lid for ten minutes makes waking it up a 5 to 10 second affair instead of instant.
- markmark 8y ago
  "DDR4 would drastically decrease it from the 30 days of standby time that they get now to less than one week" Fine, I'll take 32Gb of RAM and a less than a week of standby time thanks.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

bogomipz 8y ago

>"Also the lack of PCIe lanes forced Apples’s hand on USBc only design," Can you elaborate on this? Is this related to DDR4LP? Is there a connection?

pixl97 8y ago
>Also the lack of PCIe lanes https://ark.intel.com/products/97462/Intel-Core-i7-7920HQ-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_10-GHz https://ark.intel.com/products/97462/Intel-Core-i7-7920HQ-Pr... I don't think PCIe lanes and low power ram are directly related, but it is just another sign of Intel attempting to control the market via feature segregation. The CPU only has 16 PCIe lanes. Which is flat out retarded when 4 of them will be used by NVMe, and 8 (and really 16 should be) can be used by video. This only leaves 4 additional PCIe lanes for any other devices, including USB-C and thunderbolt. Simply put, if there were any competition in the market, that CPU look much different. Low power ram and 8 more PCIe lanes at least.