3 ms·

I think it’s funny that productivity is often the only frame which is used to discuss Germany’s mandated vacation [1]. That’s not at all the intent of the law,

by ugh 16y ago

I think it’s funny that productivity is often the only frame which is used to discuss Germany’s mandated vacation [1]. That’s not at all the intent of the law, its purpose is not increasing productivity. It exists because German lawmakers think that every employee deserves at least four weeks of paid vacation the same way US lawmakers think that every employee deserves at least $7.25 per hour [2]. I [3] am completely willing to accept possible adverse effects of mandated vacations on productivity as long as they are not too drastic [4]. I don’t view vacations as a means of improving productivity. (They might well be but the evidence I know of doesn’t do a good job of convincing me either way.) [1] The law mandates 20 days if you work five days a week so it’s actually four weeks, not six. [2] Funny enough, Germany doesn’t actually have a minimum wage. [3] Just so you are not confused, I’m German. [4] Germans are extremely wealthy so I’m not exactly concerned.

eru 16y ago
> Germans are extremely wealthy so I’m not exactly concerned. ... and fond of footnotes.
halostatue 16y ago
A discussion I had with a German couple in Verona while I was on vacation suggested that German companies don't generally give sick days and that the mandated vacation time had to be used for sick days. Was what I heard correct? As a comparison, the American company I work for (in Canada) provides a default of two weeks vacation with two weeks PEL (Personal Emergency Leave) that can be used for doctors' appointments, etc. That's twenty days, although only ten of them can be used for vacations. I realize that not every company in America provides sick days, but that's IMO a different issue.
- ulf 16y ago
  I am german also, and I never heard of people having to use vacation for sick days. You need to provide a doctors note (generally only after the third day of sickness) and then you are set. You just miss the time, but get paid and do not have to make up for anything.
- yardie 16y ago
  They don't have sick days. When you are sick you are sick it could be 1 day or 6 months. They don't give sick days because the government pays for your time off. So while they may miss out on your productivity, financially, they've lost little. As an American I've encountered far too many Americans coming into work with just "a little cold" and getting the rest of the office sick. Dragging everyone else down with them because they can't afford to take time off to see a doctor and get medicated.
  - ugh 16y ago
    That’s not correct. Your employer has to continue paying you for up to six weeks. (You generally need a doctor’s note after three days.) If you are sick longer than that your health insurance has to pay you some of your wage, usually 70 percent of your gross wage and at most 90 percent of your net wage.
    - yardie 16y ago
      Yes, you are correct. Last time I was sick for a few days I had to bring in the doctors note, which was handed over to the bookkeeper. I assumed, wrongly, they turned it into the state to recover costs. Which is what happens when I buy things for work, travel for work, or use a hotel for work. But I think the 80/20 split is still in effect for anything longer than a few weeks.
  - ulf 16y ago
    "They don't give sick days because the government pays for your time off." That is not true. The employer pays the salary for six weeks of sickness. After that, the health insurance provider takes over. I believe that the american sick-day-model could never work here because of unions and other employee-interest organizations. So it is not really up to the company, they have to pay you your salary and cannot take vacation time away from you because of sickness. However, ongoing sickness can be a reason to fire an employee.
    - halostatue 16y ago
      Thank you for the clarification. The situation is more complex for most high-tech employees in the U.S. in any case given short-term and long-term illness benefits.

by ugh 16y ago

eru 16y ago

> Germans are extremely wealthy so I’m not exactly concerned. ... and fond of footnotes.

halostatue 16y ago

A discussion I had with a German couple in Verona while I was on vacation suggested that German companies don't generally give sick days and that the mandated vacation time had to be used for sick days. Was what I heard correct? As a comparison, the American company I work for (in Canada) provides a default of two weeks vacation with two weeks PEL (Personal Emergency Leave) that can be used for doctors' appointments, etc. That's twenty days, although only ten of them can be used for vacations. I realize that not every company in America provides sick days, but that's IMO a different issue.

ulf 16y ago
I am german also, and I never heard of people having to use vacation for sick days. You need to provide a doctors note (generally only after the third day of sickness) and then you are set. You just miss the time, but get paid and do not have to make up for anything.
yardie 16y ago
They don't have sick days. When you are sick you are sick it could be 1 day or 6 months. They don't give sick days because the government pays for your time off. So while they may miss out on your productivity, financially, they've lost little. As an American I've encountered far too many Americans coming into work with just "a little cold" and getting the rest of the office sick. Dragging everyone else down with them because they can't afford to take time off to see a doctor and get medicated.
- ugh 16y ago
  That’s not correct. Your employer has to continue paying you for up to six weeks. (You generally need a doctor’s note after three days.) If you are sick longer than that your health insurance has to pay you some of your wage, usually 70 percent of your gross wage and at most 90 percent of your net wage.
  - yardie 16y ago
    Yes, you are correct. Last time I was sick for a few days I had to bring in the doctors note, which was handed over to the bookkeeper. I assumed, wrongly, they turned it into the state to recover costs. Which is what happens when I buy things for work, travel for work, or use a hotel for work. But I think the 80/20 split is still in effect for anything longer than a few weeks.
- ulf 16y ago
  "They don't give sick days because the government pays for your time off." That is not true. The employer pays the salary for six weeks of sickness. After that, the health insurance provider takes over. I believe that the american sick-day-model could never work here because of unions and other employee-interest organizations. So it is not really up to the company, they have to pay you your salary and cannot take vacation time away from you because of sickness. However, ongoing sickness can be a reason to fire an employee.
  - halostatue 16y ago
    Thank you for the clarification. The situation is more complex for most high-tech employees in the U.S. in any case given short-term and long-term illness benefits.