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Disagree that the concerns raised were legitimate. It was a hodgepodge of cherry picked science, and motivated reasoning and slander against all of his female w

Disagree that the concerns raised were legitimate. It was a hodgepodge of cherry picked science, and motivated reasoning and slander against all of his female workers. Sunday agrees with me. Maybe you’re the one who’s wrong about what was in there?

stcredzero 8y ago
> It was a hodgepodge of cherry picked science Not all scientists would agree. http://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists-respond/ http://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU > motivated reasoning and slander against all of his female workers. Only if you don't take what he says at face value and impute motivations which aren't directly stated in the text. The very need of this imputation to justify his treatment and the huge reaction, as well as the intellectually dishonest way in which the Google management and the left-leaning press engaged in hit pieces -- all of this smacks of ideological groupthink. The very fact that people can reasonably disagree about the interpretation of the memo, contrasted with the outsized reaction are pretty damning. Here's a feminist who disagrees with Damore's position in his memo, who lays out a cogent argument for why he's wrong, and there is systemic bias, but who thinks the reaction was a "little off," https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIRvtA2JIIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIRvtA2JIIA Also, note that my position is that there is also some cultural bias in the programming field -- as a field. (Hackers in the HN sense have model train clubs as their cultural forebears.) However, this doesn't preclude that women within our current cultural context may well decide not to become programmers for their own reasons, and that some of this motivation may be correlated with their gender -- without there being systemic bias within hiring organizations.
deleted 8y ago
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plattegrond 8y ago
How on Earth can you say that? The standards applied to Damore are ridiculous and would be considered openly discriminatory and harassing if applied to the women you are so eagerly defending. Did Damore refer to them as "bitchgrammers"? Do their writings get leaked and misrepresented to the press, who then strips them of their links and fans the flames? Do they lose their jobs for bringing honest citations to the table? No, in fact, they can apparently just claim to be made to feel "unsafe" by a memo responding to official company workshops, and decide to stay home, with no repercussions. Their opinion pieces are lauded as brave, and they are rubber stamped as important evidence and valid lived experience even if made up 100% of anecdotes. Well if that's the level of fragility that is the norm, then what Damore went through amounts to a human rights atrocity. But of course, displaying an ounce of empathy for a "cis white man" is no longer fashionable, and I can already hear the chuckles and hollering from the Bay Area all the way here to Europe at the mere suggestion. Discrimination is equality, heartlessness is sympathy, fragility is strength, ... It boggles the mind how this is not black on white obvious, no pun intended.
alexryan 8y ago
It's a strange world when stating the obvious is seen as an extreme position worthy of lynching. There is no need for cherry picking. The scientific evidence that men and women have different interests and that those interests become more pronounced as the society becomes more egalitarian is overwhelming. Why Can’t a Man Be More Like a Woman? Sex Differences in Big Five Personality Traits Across 55 Cultures http://www.bradley.edu/dotAsset/165918.pdf http://www.bradley.edu/dotAsset/165918.pdf This seminal paper has been cited over 3000 times and the findings have been replicated by numerous researches. The blue church dogma that female underrepresentation in tech is due to oppression is not supported by the evidence. James Damore should not have been lynched. He is owed a sincere apology.

stcredzero 8y ago

> It was a hodgepodge of cherry picked science Not all scientists would agree. http://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists-respond/ http://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU > motivated reasoning and slander against all of his female workers. Only if you don't take what he says at face value and impute motivations which aren't directly stated in the text. The very need of this imputation to justify his treatment and the huge reaction, as well as the intellectually dishonest way in which the Google management and the left-leaning press engaged in hit pieces -- all of this smacks of ideological groupthink. The very fact that people can reasonably disagree about the interpretation of the memo, contrasted with the outsized reaction are pretty damning. Here's a feminist who disagrees with Damore's position in his memo, who lays out a cogent argument for why he's wrong, and there is systemic bias, but who thinks the reaction was a "little off," https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIRvtA2JIIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIRvtA2JIIA Also, note that my position is that there is also some cultural bias in the programming field -- as a field. (Hackers in the HN sense have model train clubs as their cultural forebears.) However, this doesn't preclude that women within our current cultural context may well decide not to become programmers for their own reasons, and that some of this motivation may be correlated with their gender -- without there being systemic bias within hiring organizations.

deleted 8y ago

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plattegrond 8y ago

How on Earth can you say that? The standards applied to Damore are ridiculous and would be considered openly discriminatory and harassing if applied to the women you are so eagerly defending. Did Damore refer to them as "bitchgrammers"? Do their writings get leaked and misrepresented to the press, who then strips them of their links and fans the flames? Do they lose their jobs for bringing honest citations to the table? No, in fact, they can apparently just claim to be made to feel "unsafe" by a memo responding to official company workshops, and decide to stay home, with no repercussions. Their opinion pieces are lauded as brave, and they are rubber stamped as important evidence and valid lived experience even if made up 100% of anecdotes. Well if that's the level of fragility that is the norm, then what Damore went through amounts to a human rights atrocity. But of course, displaying an ounce of empathy for a "cis white man" is no longer fashionable, and I can already hear the chuckles and hollering from the Bay Area all the way here to Europe at the mere suggestion. Discrimination is equality, heartlessness is sympathy, fragility is strength, ... It boggles the mind how this is not black on white obvious, no pun intended.

alexryan 8y ago

It's a strange world when stating the obvious is seen as an extreme position worthy of lynching. There is no need for cherry picking. The scientific evidence that men and women have different interests and that those interests become more pronounced as the society becomes more egalitarian is overwhelming. Why Can’t a Man Be More Like a Woman? Sex Differences in Big Five Personality Traits Across 55 Cultures http://www.bradley.edu/dotAsset/165918.pdf http://www.bradley.edu/dotAsset/165918.pdf This seminal paper has been cited over 3000 times and the findings have been replicated by numerous researches. The blue church dogma that female underrepresentation in tech is due to oppression is not supported by the evidence. James Damore should not have been lynched. He is owed a sincere apology.