4 ms·

This is a patent, no one has actually made it, and big corporations file tons of patents just to have them. It's fine to keep an eye on it, but it's not a big s

by ben509 8y ago

This is a patent, no one has actually made it, and big corporations file tons of patents just to have them. It's fine to keep an eye on it, but it's not a big story because, fundamentally, no one has done anything or has concrete plans to do it. As bad as Facebook is about watching your every move, don't forget that Gizmodo, as part of Univision, is also a large corporation incentivized to push your buttons for money.

ballenf 8y ago
Probably naive of me, but I also see a potential silver lining in large companies patenting evil ideas: it's a very effective mechanism for ensuring they don't get commercialized. And if they are, you know that FB is either behind it or has condoned it, so can focus your efforts to stop it on one target. Again, potentially anyway.
- decebalus1 8y ago
  > it's a very effective mechanism for ensuring they don't get commercialized. False. Patents can be licensed and anyone with money can use it. Also, the patents are more like legal ammo which is used only when needed. So it's actually a mechanism for ensuring that: - nobody who bothers the large company commercializes it. - nobody but the wealthy members of a 'cartel' commercialize it.
fao_ 8y ago
> This is a patent, no one has actually made it, False. This has been in use by ad companies for quite a while now. One implementation, Silverpush, was reverse-engineered three years ago: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/20/silverpush_soundwave_ad_tracker/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/20/silverpush_soundwav... And the company advertised it's services a year before that: https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/24/silverpush-audio-beacons/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/24/silverpush-audio-beacons/ More sources: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-that-use-inaudible-sound-to-link-your-phone-tv-tablet-and-pc/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-th... https://thehackernews.com/2017/05/ultrasonic-tracking-signals-apps.html https://thehackernews.com/2017/05/ultrasonic-tracking-signal... https://www.wired.com/2016/11/block-ultrasonic-signals-didnt-know-tracking/ https://www.wired.com/2016/11/block-ultrasonic-signals-didnt... https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/theres-a-spike-in-android-apps-that-covertly-listen-for-inaudible-sounds-in-ads/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/there...
- ben509 8y ago
  Fair enough, though I meant "no one at Facebook".
  - fao_ 8y ago
    Indeed, facebook most likely uses a variation of the method by Silverpush, to subvert the copyright. After all, they're known to use the microphone, but it's not known what they use it for: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3079412/security/facebook-advertising-microphone-itbwcw.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3079412/security/faceb... https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/facebook-using-people-s-phones-to-listen-in-on-what-they-re-saying-claims-professor-a7057526.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne...
monochromatic 8y ago
Not even a patent. Just an application.
- acct1771 8y ago
  Right, because Facebook gets denied for patents all the time.
  - monochromatic 8y ago
    Your sarcasm is misplaced. Big companies don’t get special treatment from the USPTO.
    - acct1771 8y ago
      Or the FDA, or Justice Department, right? Seriously. Regardless of reason, how many patents does Facebook get denied for?
decebalus1 8y ago
> and big corporations file tons of patents just to have them. and more often than not the patents are extracted from either something that's already working in production or from a proof-of-concept. I realize most corporations are printing money but patent applications are definitely not cheap. Nobody puts money behind an application without having something palpable.
pwg 8y ago
> This is a patent No, it is not yet a patent. It is a publication of an application for patent. If you look the publication up in the USPTO's public pair system (https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair) you will find that the last activity was FB's attorney responding to a USPTO rejection on April 12, 2018.
codeisawesome 8y ago
Isn’t filing a patent “doing something” about an idea? This is more than a mere daydream from inside Mr. Zuckerberg’s mind.
- ben509 8y ago
  It absolutely can be, but my impression is that it's usually a way for engineers to pad their resumes and corporations to accumulate patents to pad their IP assets. In support of your case, advertising is very much in line with Facebook's business model, so it's a bit less speculative than I was characterizing it.
flak48 8y ago
Silverpush, an Indian company, was already doing this 3 years ago: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2016/03/21/silverpush-tv-mobile-ad-tracking-killed/#4770cf5451ab https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2016/03/21/silve...

by ben509 8y ago

ballenf 8y ago

Probably naive of me, but I also see a potential silver lining in large companies patenting evil ideas: it's a very effective mechanism for ensuring they don't get commercialized. And if they are, you know that FB is either behind it or has condoned it, so can focus your efforts to stop it on one target. Again, potentially anyway.

decebalus1 8y ago
> it's a very effective mechanism for ensuring they don't get commercialized. False. Patents can be licensed and anyone with money can use it. Also, the patents are more like legal ammo which is used only when needed. So it's actually a mechanism for ensuring that: - nobody who bothers the large company commercializes it. - nobody but the wealthy members of a 'cartel' commercialize it.

fao_ 8y ago

> This is a patent, no one has actually made it, False. This has been in use by ad companies for quite a while now. One implementation, Silverpush, was reverse-engineered three years ago: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/20/silverpush_soundwave_ad_tracker/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/20/silverpush_soundwav... And the company advertised it's services a year before that: https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/24/silverpush-audio-beacons/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/24/silverpush-audio-beacons/ More sources: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-that-use-inaudible-sound-to-link-your-phone-tv-tablet-and-pc/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-th... https://thehackernews.com/2017/05/ultrasonic-tracking-signals-apps.html https://thehackernews.com/2017/05/ultrasonic-tracking-signal... https://www.wired.com/2016/11/block-ultrasonic-signals-didnt-know-tracking/ https://www.wired.com/2016/11/block-ultrasonic-signals-didnt... https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/theres-a-spike-in-android-apps-that-covertly-listen-for-inaudible-sounds-in-ads/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/there...

ben509 8y ago
Fair enough, though I meant "no one at Facebook".
- fao_ 8y ago
  Indeed, facebook most likely uses a variation of the method by Silverpush, to subvert the copyright. After all, they're known to use the microphone, but it's not known what they use it for: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3079412/security/facebook-advertising-microphone-itbwcw.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3079412/security/faceb... https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/facebook-using-people-s-phones-to-listen-in-on-what-they-re-saying-claims-professor-a7057526.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne...

monochromatic 8y ago

Not even a patent. Just an application.

acct1771 8y ago
Right, because Facebook gets denied for patents all the time.
- monochromatic 8y ago
  Your sarcasm is misplaced. Big companies don’t get special treatment from the USPTO.
  - acct1771 8y ago
    Or the FDA, or Justice Department, right? Seriously. Regardless of reason, how many patents does Facebook get denied for?

decebalus1 8y ago

> and big corporations file tons of patents just to have them. and more often than not the patents are extracted from either something that's already working in production or from a proof-of-concept. I realize most corporations are printing money but patent applications are definitely not cheap. Nobody puts money behind an application without having something palpable.

pwg 8y ago

> This is a patent No, it is not yet a patent. It is a publication of an application for patent. If you look the publication up in the USPTO's public pair system (https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair) you will find that the last activity was FB's attorney responding to a USPTO rejection on April 12, 2018.

codeisawesome 8y ago

Isn’t filing a patent “doing something” about an idea? This is more than a mere daydream from inside Mr. Zuckerberg’s mind.

ben509 8y ago
It absolutely can be, but my impression is that it's usually a way for engineers to pad their resumes and corporations to accumulate patents to pad their IP assets. In support of your case, advertising is very much in line with Facebook's business model, so it's a bit less speculative than I was characterizing it.

flak48 8y ago

Silverpush, an Indian company, was already doing this 3 years ago: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2016/03/21/silverpush-tv-mobile-ad-tracking-killed/#4770cf5451ab https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2016/03/21/silve...