4 ms·

Name a search engine that's better than Google. Nobody type "I'd like to know what the best way is to braise pork with white wine", doesn't mean Google can't gi

by pavs 8y ago

Name a search engine that's better than Google. Nobody type "I'd like to know what the best way is to braise pork with white wine", doesn't mean Google can't give you good search result if you typed like that, you will get just as good result if you type "pork recipe braise wine", but its fewer words and more efficient to type. It's less of "google trained us to type like that" and more or "We opted to use the more efficient way of doing that same thing". If Google didn't give us good results if we typed "pork recipe braise wine", it would be a pretty shitty search engine in my book.

bjelkeman-again 8y ago
In my experience the results are worse with full sentences, just as it was described.
Springtime 8y ago
> It's less of "google trained us to type like that" and more or "We opted to use the more efficient way of doing that same thing". I'm a bit baffled at this, given it reads as though the past 20 years of searching hasn't been learning to adapt to what one might call search engine speak for better results. The obvious main issue was for years you had to guess how someone else would phrase something if using longer phrases, since the longer the query the less likely you'll find a matching result. If you didn't get the desired results you then would either re-phrase it to yet another natural sentence or (increasingly since it shortcuts the process) pare back the query to simpler keywords to have a better chance of success finding those same core keywords in sites. Eventually people got used to just entering keywords instead since it wasted time trying one's luck on more natural sentences for the reasons above. Obviously with better natural language tech (and with more user content generated and indexed) some queries became more successful but even today it can be a complete dice roll for many longer, naturally phrased queries whether anything useful is returned.
- pavs 8y ago
  This might be true for a small subset or early or techie users, but from my experience watching some of my less tech-inclined friends and family using google search. I find it fascinating how much trouble they go through by typing a complete sentence with proper grammar and spelling. I honestly don't know which one is common, but I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of users type full sentences or long search queries.
reaperducer 8y ago
Name a search engine that's better than Google I never stated that Google isn't the best search engine out there. I stated that I hoped the natural language learning from Duplex would filter down to the Google search engine. But while we're on the topic, find a search query in which Google will return a list of movie reviewers in the city of Chicago. It can't. It is so focused on second-guessing search queries that it will only return lists of reviews of the film Chicago. I had this exact very frustrating experience once trying to find the name of a woman I met who publishes a popular movie review blog in Chicago. There's even a "guild" of sorts of movie reviewers in Chicago, but Google could only surface that as high as the 10th page of results. I know I'm not the only person frustrated with Google's desire to second-guess my searches because I heard a comedian on the radio last week who did a bit that lasted five whole minutes on Google second-guessing searches.
- foota 8y ago
  "movie reviewers located in Chicago" returns the Chicago film critics association as the second result.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    For you. Right now. But when I did the search about a year ago, the results were as described above.
    - scarejunba 8y ago
      Well, looks like your problem is fixed then.
    - foota 8y ago
      I'd say your issue couldn't be reaperduced.
- pavs 8y ago
  I feel that we have such a high standard for google search result quality that we can get frustrated by such highly specific search result edge cases. Google search is not perfect, but its the best search engine out there by a long margin for almost 20 years. There will be a subset of users who will bemoan user privacy but expect highly specific personally tailored quality search result. You can't have both and there will always be edge cases in such a difficult domain. The fact that so many industry heavyweights can't compete with Google in search result quality, says a lot about how good Google is. Does it has problems? Yes, no one is denying it.
sseth 8y ago
Actually both are true. Google (or earlier search engines) did work on basis of keywords. The ability to handle full sentences well came much later in one of google's major search updates - I think Hummingbird which came out in 2013.

by pavs 8y ago

bjelkeman-again 8y ago

In my experience the results are worse with full sentences, just as it was described.

Springtime 8y ago

> It's less of "google trained us to type like that" and more or "We opted to use the more efficient way of doing that same thing". I'm a bit baffled at this, given it reads as though the past 20 years of searching hasn't been learning to adapt to what one might call search engine speak for better results. The obvious main issue was for years you had to guess how someone else would phrase something if using longer phrases, since the longer the query the less likely you'll find a matching result. If you didn't get the desired results you then would either re-phrase it to yet another natural sentence or (increasingly since it shortcuts the process) pare back the query to simpler keywords to have a better chance of success finding those same core keywords in sites. Eventually people got used to just entering keywords instead since it wasted time trying one's luck on more natural sentences for the reasons above. Obviously with better natural language tech (and with more user content generated and indexed) some queries became more successful but even today it can be a complete dice roll for many longer, naturally phrased queries whether anything useful is returned.

pavs 8y ago
This might be true for a small subset or early or techie users, but from my experience watching some of my less tech-inclined friends and family using google search. I find it fascinating how much trouble they go through by typing a complete sentence with proper grammar and spelling. I honestly don't know which one is common, but I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of users type full sentences or long search queries.

reaperducer 8y ago

Name a search engine that's better than Google I never stated that Google isn't the best search engine out there. I stated that I hoped the natural language learning from Duplex would filter down to the Google search engine. But while we're on the topic, find a search query in which Google will return a list of movie reviewers in the city of Chicago. It can't. It is so focused on second-guessing search queries that it will only return lists of reviews of the film Chicago. I had this exact very frustrating experience once trying to find the name of a woman I met who publishes a popular movie review blog in Chicago. There's even a "guild" of sorts of movie reviewers in Chicago, but Google could only surface that as high as the 10th page of results. I know I'm not the only person frustrated with Google's desire to second-guess my searches because I heard a comedian on the radio last week who did a bit that lasted five whole minutes on Google second-guessing searches.

foota 8y ago
"movie reviewers located in Chicago" returns the Chicago film critics association as the second result.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  For you. Right now. But when I did the search about a year ago, the results were as described above.
  - scarejunba 8y ago
    Well, looks like your problem is fixed then.
  - foota 8y ago
    I'd say your issue couldn't be reaperduced.
pavs 8y ago
I feel that we have such a high standard for google search result quality that we can get frustrated by such highly specific search result edge cases. Google search is not perfect, but its the best search engine out there by a long margin for almost 20 years. There will be a subset of users who will bemoan user privacy but expect highly specific personally tailored quality search result. You can't have both and there will always be edge cases in such a difficult domain. The fact that so many industry heavyweights can't compete with Google in search result quality, says a lot about how good Google is. Does it has problems? Yes, no one is denying it.

sseth 8y ago

Actually both are true. Google (or earlier search engines) did work on basis of keywords. The ability to handle full sentences well came much later in one of google's major search updates - I think Hummingbird which came out in 2013.