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Software engineer compensation is the extreme example. When you compare other technical jobs, the difference is less extreme, but it is still there. I can only

by skgoa 8y ago

Software engineer compensation is the extreme example. When you compare other technical jobs, the difference is less extreme, but it is still there. I can only talk about Germany, but here we see that all types of highly qualified employees get lower compensation across the board. It's not enough of a difference to make me unhappy and it's nowhere close enough of a difference to make want to emmigrate to the US. But it's a significant difference that is one of the driving factors behind tens of thousands of highly qualified Germans leaving the country every year. It's also a huge issue for us "on the ground", because we are starved for qualified applicants. Our entire industry is running into trouble trying to do ever more with a workforce that grows rather slowly. Unfortunately, managers seem to be unwilling to offer more to get the best people. Instead they fight tooth and nail to pay as little as possible.

ahartmetz 8y ago
In software it's not only the salaries, but also the rarity of European companies that are good at software. Generally speaking, engineers want to achieve results and hate inefficiency. Jobs in companies that really understand software are somewhat rare in Europe - usually you have to find a small to medium sized company, and the pay there is usually below the large companies. You pay for the privilege of being productive(!). In the US, if you join any of the famous large ones, you'll be in an environment where you can get stuff done and expand your skills in work time while getting some of the highest salaries. A phenomenon that I've seen a few times is highly skilled Eastern Europeans coming to Germany, then leaving for the US 1-4 years later. If they leave their home countries for a much higher salary anyway, why not move again and triple the salary another time?
- lnsru 8y ago
  Very well written, I was just from curiousity recently talking to recruiter and I need to accept 20% salary cut to work in smaller company where I could be more productive. I rather take money and Udacity courses when idle. But there is another point: $100k in Germany is a top limit for skilled engineers. There are some geniuses with patents, papers and fame, they still make <$150k. I imagine, skilled engineer could earn more and retire earlier in the US.
  - lallysingh 8y ago
    $100k is less than half of what a good engineer makes in SV, right out of school. Of course, too much of that goes straight into rent...
    - homarp 8y ago
      as seen earlier Families earning $117,000 now qualify as “low income” in California's Bay Area - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17405375 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17405375
- MrBuddyCasino 8y ago
  This is a very good summary. I have experience with quite a few german DAX 50 companies, and they do not get software, at all. They don't understand that hiring the best is much more economical, don't want to pay for them, basically they "acquire" software and talent as if it was a commodity like stell screws or something.

by skgoa 8y ago

ahartmetz 8y ago

In software it's not only the salaries, but also the rarity of European companies that are good at software. Generally speaking, engineers want to achieve results and hate inefficiency. Jobs in companies that really understand software are somewhat rare in Europe - usually you have to find a small to medium sized company, and the pay there is usually below the large companies. You pay for the privilege of being productive(!). In the US, if you join any of the famous large ones, you'll be in an environment where you can get stuff done and expand your skills in work time while getting some of the highest salaries. A phenomenon that I've seen a few times is highly skilled Eastern Europeans coming to Germany, then leaving for the US 1-4 years later. If they leave their home countries for a much higher salary anyway, why not move again and triple the salary another time?

lnsru 8y ago
Very well written, I was just from curiousity recently talking to recruiter and I need to accept 20% salary cut to work in smaller company where I could be more productive. I rather take money and Udacity courses when idle. But there is another point: $100k in Germany is a top limit for skilled engineers. There are some geniuses with patents, papers and fame, they still make <$150k. I imagine, skilled engineer could earn more and retire earlier in the US.
- lallysingh 8y ago
  $100k is less than half of what a good engineer makes in SV, right out of school. Of course, too much of that goes straight into rent...
  - homarp 8y ago
    as seen earlier Families earning $117,000 now qualify as “low income” in California's Bay Area - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17405375 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17405375
MrBuddyCasino 8y ago
This is a very good summary. I have experience with quite a few german DAX 50 companies, and they do not get software, at all. They don't understand that hiring the best is much more economical, don't want to pay for them, basically they "acquire" software and talent as if it was a commodity like stell screws or something.