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Hetzner Storage Box[1] is an interesting alternative to Backblaze B2. It's not cloud-based, but provides free automated snapshots, free 1 Gbps bandwidth, and s

by krn 8y ago

Hetzner Storage Box[1] is an interesting alternative to Backblaze B2. It's not cloud-based, but provides free automated snapshots, free 1 Gbps bandwidth, and supports FTP, FTPS, SFTP, SCP, rsync and BorgBackup[2]. [1] https://www.hetzner.com/storage-box https://www.hetzner.com/storage-box [2] https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Storage_Boxes/en https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Storage_Boxes/en

hardwaresofton 8y ago
+1 for Hetzner, they have an amazing suite of services for excellent prices. Hetzner's robot marketplace[0] changed my (operations) life. [0]: https://robot.your-server.de/order/market https://robot.your-server.de/order/market
- apkallum 8y ago
  How did they do so?
  - hardwaresofton 8y ago
    tl;dr - Shifted my knowledge of the hosting market by exposing me to cheap dedicated servers I had previously thought that dedicated servers were doomed to be too expensive/heavy weight for me. I also felt like most VPS providers charged too much (especially true in the case of AWS -- $10/mo for a t2.micro is ridiculous). I first found INIZ (http://iniz.com/ http://iniz.com/) and was super happy with them, then someone introduced me to Hetzner Robot Marketplace and I was blown away by the affordable prices (+/- setup fee) and have had one ever since. Hetzner also has a cloud offering that is also pretty great -- slight limits on operating system choice and some other features and you can have very competitively priced machines in a more cloud-friendly fire-up-and-go format. I wrote about the revelation here (including link to HN thread where it happened): https://vadosware.io/post/fresh-dedicated-server-to-single-node-kubernetes-cluster-on-coreos/#why-change-my-infrastructure-at-all https://vadosware.io/post/fresh-dedicated-server-to-single-n... Now I have a ~6 Core (12 vCore/hyper-thread) 24GB RAM monster that I can run experiments with for a decent monthly price. If you go to other providers like Packet, OVH or Amazon, you're going to see way higher prices -- I'm don't have too many requirements so Hetzner worked for me.
- smcleod 8y ago
  Be very careful with those - they do not use ECC memory and thus suffer from the many potential security attacks and your software needs to handle the odd memory error.
  - krn 8y ago
    Many larger (64 GB RAM and more) servers from Hetzner Robot in fact do have ECC memory.
  - Zekio 8y ago
    so exactly like your average desktop? whats the problem it isn't like you share the hardware with others
  - josteink 8y ago
    > Be very careful with those - they do not use ECC memory and thus suffer from the many potential security attacks ECC hyperbole much? When you've decided to put your personal data somewhere in a cloud on the other side of the internet, this kind of stuff should probably be absolutely on the bottom of the list of things you need to worry about.
  - anc84 8y ago
    Not true at all, you can simply filter for "ECC" and get offers starting at 26€ for a 6TB of storage, 16GB ECC RAM.
mprev 8y ago
How is the reliability?
- metafunctor 8y ago
  It's colocated hardware, with a thin service layer on top so they set it up for you as a service. The service and hardware are quite reliable, but you can (and will) still lose all your data in case the hardware fails. You have to create your own processes and layering to get to an adequate number of 9s for whatever kind of reliability you're looking for.
  - krn 8y ago
    After the launch of Hetzner Cloud six months ago, Block Storage and Object Storage might be on their way[1]. [1] https://github.com/hetznercloud/terraform-provider-hcloud/issues/24#issuecomment-369548193 https://github.com/hetznercloud/terraform-provider-hcloud/is...
  - tiatia123 8y ago
    "but you can (and will) still lose all your data in case the hardware fails. " Can you elaborate this? I mean besides if the center burns down? They offer "snapshots". If the drive fails, they can not recreate the last snapshot?
    - JosephRedfern 8y ago
      I suspect these are like ZFS snapshots -- they're not backed up, but allow you to restore your data to a previous point in time (like git history).
    - chillydawg 8y ago
      I think that basically the guarantee exists as long as the raid array within the box is operating. There's no other safety.
  - JosephRedfern 8y ago
    Unless I'm mistaken (entirely possible), it's not colocated hardware -- Hetzner own both their data centres and the hardware in them.
m_mueller 8y ago
What do you mean with "not cloud-based"? You mean IaaS rather than PaaS?
- krn 8y ago
  Hetzner is a bare-metal company operating since 1997, which hasn't released a cloud-based storage yet. "Your files on Storage Boxes are safeguarded with a RAID configuration which can withstand several drive failures. Therefore, there is a relatively small chance of data being lost. Please note, however, that you are responsible for your data and there is no guarantee from Hetzner against potential loss of data. The data is not mirrored onto other servers." https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Storage_Boxes/en#Reliability https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Storage_Boxes/en#Reliabili...
  - m_mueller 8y ago
    Thank you - so it‘s just less redundant than e.g. Backblaze (I assume). That‘s an important distinction. See, I‘m not a fan of using buzzwords to describe anything in more detail. „Cloud“, „AI“, „Big Data“, „NoSQL“ etc. is (sometimes) fine to get non technical people interested, but useless to say anything meaningful about a system IMO.
    - homarp 8y ago
      I can't find any guarantee on reliability for Backblaze, their SLA ( https://www.backblaze.com/company/sla.html https://www.backblaze.com/company/sla.html ) has "Backblaze will make commercially reasonable efforts to ensure that B2 Cloud Storage is available and able to successfully process requests during at minimum 99.9% of each calendar month. "
  - nathankunicki 8y ago
    Can I ask, what makes that setup "not cloud" vs Amazon S3? Amazon doesn't make public their hardware setup, merely that they offer various "9s" of reliability against data loss. What if, for arguments sake, Amazon's secret setup is exactly the same as Hertzner hardware wise, with Amazon merely putting a number against the reliability that setup offers?
urtrs 8y ago
I created an account with them recently and they asked for my passport or id card for authentication. Is this usual?
- deno 8y ago
  Yes, very usual for EU companies. Make sure to blank anything sensitive. If this seems weird, consider how many places require your Social Security in US.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    It's generally finance related that requires a social security number. If a hosting provider asked they would get 123-12-1234
  - ar-jan 8y ago
    Not in my experience. Hetzner is the only one out of a dozen that I recall asking for ID.
- benbristow 8y ago
  Yep. OVH (The French) have a pretty strict ID policy too. Nothing to worry about.
  - ar-jan 8y ago
    I didn't have to provide ID with OVH, just fill out my address.
    - benbristow 8y ago
      You must have been lucky then. I had to go through a manual send photocopy of my ID process etc.
- Moter8 8y ago
  Usually hosters do this so they have some verfied name or address in case of abuse.
pnutjam 8y ago
I use a time4vps storage server, it's less expensive. I also use it as a borg destination, among other things. https://billing.time4vps.eu/?affid=1881 https://billing.time4vps.eu/?affid=1881 (affiliate link) https://www.time4vps.eu/storage-servers/ https://www.time4vps.eu/storage-servers/ (straight link)

by krn 8y ago

hardwaresofton 8y ago

+1 for Hetzner, they have an amazing suite of services for excellent prices. Hetzner's robot marketplace[0] changed my (operations) life. [0]: https://robot.your-server.de/order/market https://robot.your-server.de/order/market

apkallum 8y ago
How did they do so?
- hardwaresofton 8y ago
  tl;dr - Shifted my knowledge of the hosting market by exposing me to cheap dedicated servers I had previously thought that dedicated servers were doomed to be too expensive/heavy weight for me. I also felt like most VPS providers charged too much (especially true in the case of AWS -- $10/mo for a t2.micro is ridiculous). I first found INIZ (http://iniz.com/ http://iniz.com/) and was super happy with them, then someone introduced me to Hetzner Robot Marketplace and I was blown away by the affordable prices (+/- setup fee) and have had one ever since. Hetzner also has a cloud offering that is also pretty great -- slight limits on operating system choice and some other features and you can have very competitively priced machines in a more cloud-friendly fire-up-and-go format. I wrote about the revelation here (including link to HN thread where it happened): https://vadosware.io/post/fresh-dedicated-server-to-single-node-kubernetes-cluster-on-coreos/#why-change-my-infrastructure-at-all https://vadosware.io/post/fresh-dedicated-server-to-single-n... Now I have a ~6 Core (12 vCore/hyper-thread) 24GB RAM monster that I can run experiments with for a decent monthly price. If you go to other providers like Packet, OVH or Amazon, you're going to see way higher prices -- I'm don't have too many requirements so Hetzner worked for me.
smcleod 8y ago
Be very careful with those - they do not use ECC memory and thus suffer from the many potential security attacks and your software needs to handle the odd memory error.
- krn 8y ago
  Many larger (64 GB RAM and more) servers from Hetzner Robot in fact do have ECC memory.
- Zekio 8y ago
  so exactly like your average desktop? whats the problem it isn't like you share the hardware with others
- josteink 8y ago
  > Be very careful with those - they do not use ECC memory and thus suffer from the many potential security attacks ECC hyperbole much? When you've decided to put your personal data somewhere in a cloud on the other side of the internet, this kind of stuff should probably be absolutely on the bottom of the list of things you need to worry about.
- anc84 8y ago
  Not true at all, you can simply filter for "ECC" and get offers starting at 26€ for a 6TB of storage, 16GB ECC RAM.

mprev 8y ago

How is the reliability?

metafunctor 8y ago
It's colocated hardware, with a thin service layer on top so they set it up for you as a service. The service and hardware are quite reliable, but you can (and will) still lose all your data in case the hardware fails. You have to create your own processes and layering to get to an adequate number of 9s for whatever kind of reliability you're looking for.
- krn 8y ago
  After the launch of Hetzner Cloud six months ago, Block Storage and Object Storage might be on their way[1]. [1] https://github.com/hetznercloud/terraform-provider-hcloud/issues/24#issuecomment-369548193 https://github.com/hetznercloud/terraform-provider-hcloud/is...
- tiatia123 8y ago
  "but you can (and will) still lose all your data in case the hardware fails. " Can you elaborate this? I mean besides if the center burns down? They offer "snapshots". If the drive fails, they can not recreate the last snapshot?
  - JosephRedfern 8y ago
    I suspect these are like ZFS snapshots -- they're not backed up, but allow you to restore your data to a previous point in time (like git history).
  - chillydawg 8y ago
    I think that basically the guarantee exists as long as the raid array within the box is operating. There's no other safety.
- JosephRedfern 8y ago
  Unless I'm mistaken (entirely possible), it's not colocated hardware -- Hetzner own both their data centres and the hardware in them.

m_mueller 8y ago

What do you mean with "not cloud-based"? You mean IaaS rather than PaaS?

krn 8y ago
Hetzner is a bare-metal company operating since 1997, which hasn't released a cloud-based storage yet. "Your files on Storage Boxes are safeguarded with a RAID configuration which can withstand several drive failures. Therefore, there is a relatively small chance of data being lost. Please note, however, that you are responsible for your data and there is no guarantee from Hetzner against potential loss of data. The data is not mirrored onto other servers." https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Storage_Boxes/en#Reliability https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Storage_Boxes/en#Reliabili...
- m_mueller 8y ago
  Thank you - so it‘s just less redundant than e.g. Backblaze (I assume). That‘s an important distinction. See, I‘m not a fan of using buzzwords to describe anything in more detail. „Cloud“, „AI“, „Big Data“, „NoSQL“ etc. is (sometimes) fine to get non technical people interested, but useless to say anything meaningful about a system IMO.
  - homarp 8y ago
    I can't find any guarantee on reliability for Backblaze, their SLA ( https://www.backblaze.com/company/sla.html https://www.backblaze.com/company/sla.html ) has "Backblaze will make commercially reasonable efforts to ensure that B2 Cloud Storage is available and able to successfully process requests during at minimum 99.9% of each calendar month. "
- nathankunicki 8y ago
  Can I ask, what makes that setup "not cloud" vs Amazon S3? Amazon doesn't make public their hardware setup, merely that they offer various "9s" of reliability against data loss. What if, for arguments sake, Amazon's secret setup is exactly the same as Hertzner hardware wise, with Amazon merely putting a number against the reliability that setup offers?

urtrs 8y ago

I created an account with them recently and they asked for my passport or id card for authentication. Is this usual?

deno 8y ago
Yes, very usual for EU companies. Make sure to blank anything sensitive. If this seems weird, consider how many places require your Social Security in US.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  It's generally finance related that requires a social security number. If a hosting provider asked they would get 123-12-1234
- ar-jan 8y ago
  Not in my experience. Hetzner is the only one out of a dozen that I recall asking for ID.
benbristow 8y ago
Yep. OVH (The French) have a pretty strict ID policy too. Nothing to worry about.
- ar-jan 8y ago
  I didn't have to provide ID with OVH, just fill out my address.
  - benbristow 8y ago
    You must have been lucky then. I had to go through a manual send photocopy of my ID process etc.
Moter8 8y ago
Usually hosters do this so they have some verfied name or address in case of abuse.

pnutjam 8y ago

I use a time4vps storage server, it's less expensive. I also use it as a borg destination, among other things. https://billing.time4vps.eu/?affid=1881 https://billing.time4vps.eu/?affid=1881 (affiliate link) https://www.time4vps.eu/storage-servers/ https://www.time4vps.eu/storage-servers/ (straight link)