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"Regardless of how you try to rephrase it, the fact remains the same: the technology doesn't work well enough." I don't suggest that anyone is looking to simpl

"Regardless of how you try to rephrase it, the fact remains the same: the technology doesn't work well enough." I don't suggest that anyone is looking to simply lock people up because of a 'face match' - rather flag an individual as 'possibly being someone' in which case this can be very useful information. If for example they use it at border checks to 'flag' individuals, then a border agent can manually intervene, check the person's info etc.. So maybe that this not even possible to any degree of validity today, in which case 'the tech is not ready' ... but if the tech works to any measurable degree of reliability then it's possible to be put to use to reasonable effect - like anything (guns, tasers, DNA matching, fingerprints) - it has to be used properly. Fingerprints seem to be a bonafide way to identify someone and can be used as evidence, it'd seem that facial recognition can't be used as evidence, but likely for other things.

bradknowles 8y ago
If we could force the cops to always use the tool in a way that is consistent with its limitations, then you might be right. Unfortunately, cops are not technologists. They're not mathematicians. They don't understand the dangers of applying a solution that is right 99% of the time to a population of 300 million people, and if each person averaged appearing on just one camera per day, that would mean three million false identifications per day. How many real criminals are they really looking for on a daily basis, and which would warrant such a dragnet measure? They can't handle a false positive rate like that. They can't be running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to verify the millions of bogus hits against the tiny fraction of potential valid ones. It's the same problem that the TSA has, only these are real police with real guns. And real people are going to get killed because they get mis-identified, as opposed to just inconvenienced and pulled aside for extra scanning. Do you really want to make the cops as bad as the TSA?
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  You don't have to 'force' cops if the proper parameters and processes are laid out. Moreover, though cops can bend and break rules, they're not idiots. For example, at border crossing, a 'fact match' with a name simply could flag someone for an interview, and a background check to see if it's a certain person. An arrest has to be made on some kind of reasonable grounds if a 'face match' is not considered reasonable grounds, border guards (and cops for that matter) are quite aware of that and know they can't make the arrest on that basis alone.
  - bradknowles 8y ago
    Except ICE doesn't abide by your rules. You have no rights when being questioned or investigated by them. At least, that's the way they operate. Now, if you take them to court, maybe you can get a reversal of their action against you. But you have to be a citizen or legal resident to do that, and you still have to suffer the consequences in the meanwhile.
    - sonnyblarney 8y ago
      Yes of course I agree and we should be wary; it's bonkers that the US does not have clear and definitive rules for how the rules/constitution applies to non-residents etc..

bradknowles 8y ago

If we could force the cops to always use the tool in a way that is consistent with its limitations, then you might be right. Unfortunately, cops are not technologists. They're not mathematicians. They don't understand the dangers of applying a solution that is right 99% of the time to a population of 300 million people, and if each person averaged appearing on just one camera per day, that would mean three million false identifications per day. How many real criminals are they really looking for on a daily basis, and which would warrant such a dragnet measure? They can't handle a false positive rate like that. They can't be running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to verify the millions of bogus hits against the tiny fraction of potential valid ones. It's the same problem that the TSA has, only these are real police with real guns. And real people are going to get killed because they get mis-identified, as opposed to just inconvenienced and pulled aside for extra scanning. Do you really want to make the cops as bad as the TSA?

sonnyblarney 8y ago
You don't have to 'force' cops if the proper parameters and processes are laid out. Moreover, though cops can bend and break rules, they're not idiots. For example, at border crossing, a 'fact match' with a name simply could flag someone for an interview, and a background check to see if it's a certain person. An arrest has to be made on some kind of reasonable grounds if a 'face match' is not considered reasonable grounds, border guards (and cops for that matter) are quite aware of that and know they can't make the arrest on that basis alone.
- bradknowles 8y ago
  Except ICE doesn't abide by your rules. You have no rights when being questioned or investigated by them. At least, that's the way they operate. Now, if you take them to court, maybe you can get a reversal of their action against you. But you have to be a citizen or legal resident to do that, and you still have to suffer the consequences in the meanwhile.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    Yes of course I agree and we should be wary; it's bonkers that the US does not have clear and definitive rules for how the rules/constitution applies to non-residents etc..