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5G antennas are getting close to AESA (active electronically scanned array) radars used in military (X-band is 8 to 12 GHz). Unlike radars in fighters, 5G ar

5G antennas are getting close to AESA (active electronically scanned array) radars used in military (X-band is 8 to 12 GHz). Unlike radars in fighters, 5G array can't cost millions per unit.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Which is great news; I'm looking forward to the cost of phased array radar dropping for all applications (military, weather, communications, life safety, etc), as well as improved colocation capabilities (for example, the next gen NEXRAD weather network is going to be a combined phased array weather and aircraft transportation surveillance [TSA & FAA] system enabled by solid state phased array hardware [+], which is going to save $5 billion dollars over the system lifetime). [+] https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/tools/radar/mpar/ https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/tools/radar/mpar/
- sxates 8y ago
  Good for self-driving cars as well I assume.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Possibly, I don't believe radar has the necessary resolution compared to photogrammetry and lidar at the distance self driving requires. Someone with self-driving experience, please correct me.
    - mNovak 8y ago
      Self-driving likely will require multiple sensing modalities. One big draw towards radar is it works through rain, fog, dust, etc which optical techniques (like our eyeballs) struggle with
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
sandworm101 8y ago
They dont. The power levels are less than 1% of military radars. Plus mass production. They are talking 10,000$ per unit, which isnt all that bad for cell equipment that can aim itself. Military radars are for detecting quiet targets, not cellphones wanting internet. It is total apples and oranges in terms of energy levels.
- mNovak 8y ago
  We're going to see some amount of beamsteering (and/or MIMO) on the handset side too. But only 3-10 elements--nowhere near the 1000s on an AESA.
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    Last time I looked you need a huge amount of elements to get good angular resolution. For Wifi two things. 1. All you care about is getting the ratio of multipath energy high enough that you can resolve independent signals. 2. Remember RF power is measured in db and your radio's power consumption is in linear watts. 6db better signal margin means you use half the amount of energy. Useful for devices that run off batteries, have issues with heat dissipation.[1] 3. Less energy transmitted means your effective cell size gets smaller. [1] Crusty old EE pointed out to me once the difference between a 85% efficient power supply and a 90% one is 65% less heat to get rid of. Same thing is true of RF power amps.
    - nwah1 8y ago
      Why not 33% less heat? The amount of wasted energy is cut from 15% to 10%.
      - Gibbon1 8y ago
        You are right, I got that backwards
- fooker 8y ago
  10000$ isn't very good either, because 5G needs far more base stations (by about an order of magnitude) compared to 3G or LTE.

5G antennas are getting close to AESA (active electronically scanned array) radars used in military (X-band is 8 to 12 GHz). Unlike radars in fighters, 5G array can't cost millions per unit.

toomuchtodo 8y ago

Which is great news; I'm looking forward to the cost of phased array radar dropping for all applications (military, weather, communications, life safety, etc), as well as improved colocation capabilities (for example, the next gen NEXRAD weather network is going to be a combined phased array weather and aircraft transportation surveillance [TSA & FAA] system enabled by solid state phased array hardware [+], which is going to save $5 billion dollars over the system lifetime). [+] https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/tools/radar/mpar/ https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/tools/radar/mpar/

sxates 8y ago
Good for self-driving cars as well I assume.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Possibly, I don't believe radar has the necessary resolution compared to photogrammetry and lidar at the distance self driving requires. Someone with self-driving experience, please correct me.
  - mNovak 8y ago
    Self-driving likely will require multiple sensing modalities. One big draw towards radar is it works through rain, fog, dust, etc which optical techniques (like our eyeballs) struggle with
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

sandworm101 8y ago

They dont. The power levels are less than 1% of military radars. Plus mass production. They are talking 10,000$ per unit, which isnt all that bad for cell equipment that can aim itself. Military radars are for detecting quiet targets, not cellphones wanting internet. It is total apples and oranges in terms of energy levels.

mNovak 8y ago
We're going to see some amount of beamsteering (and/or MIMO) on the handset side too. But only 3-10 elements--nowhere near the 1000s on an AESA.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  Last time I looked you need a huge amount of elements to get good angular resolution. For Wifi two things. 1. All you care about is getting the ratio of multipath energy high enough that you can resolve independent signals. 2. Remember RF power is measured in db and your radio's power consumption is in linear watts. 6db better signal margin means you use half the amount of energy. Useful for devices that run off batteries, have issues with heat dissipation.[1] 3. Less energy transmitted means your effective cell size gets smaller. [1] Crusty old EE pointed out to me once the difference between a 85% efficient power supply and a 90% one is 65% less heat to get rid of. Same thing is true of RF power amps.
  - nwah1 8y ago
    Why not 33% less heat? The amount of wasted energy is cut from 15% to 10%.
    - Gibbon1 8y ago
      You are right, I got that backwards
fooker 8y ago
10000$ isn't very good either, because 5G needs far more base stations (by about an order of magnitude) compared to 3G or LTE.