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Throwing yourself under this legal bus isn't going to benefit you or anybody else. I mean you can poke them as much as you want, but is this the hill you want

Throwing yourself under this legal bus isn't going to benefit you or anybody else. I mean you can poke them as much as you want, but is this the hill you want to die on?

shawn 8y ago
If it benefits others. That’s all I care about. It seems like tolerating this may not be in the best interest of the community going forward. And I would find it interesting to be able to claim that magic leap has sued me for distributing 3 month old api docs to myself.
- VectorLock 8y ago
  What benefit do you think it would give others? It looks like they're pretty clearly and understandably asserting their rights. Are you making their API docs publicly accessible?
  - shawn 8y ago
    All other arguments aside, I’m uncomfortable with a world in which developers are bullied and intimidated by large corporations over nothing. In this case, it’s 3 month old api docs distributed to myself, which may be absurd enough to possibly make a stand over. The central issue appears to be the idea that in order to defend against anyone, they have to defend against everyone. And in cases like this, I’m not sure that’s to the public benefit.
    - VectorLock 8y ago
      People in that comment thread described it more eloquently and precisely than I could but it really comes down to "use it or lose it." Would it have been _nice_ for them to send you a politely worded message like "oh hey soo could you take down our docs kthx!" but it lacks the legal precision to defend their copyrights. Lawyer are, unfortunately, seldom paid to be nice.
      - shawn 8y ago
        Nah, I don’t blame the formality. What seems true is that both ipfs and blockchain technologies will make these legal tools obsolete. What if we were to set up a project in response to this that made the Magic Leap API docs available in a distributed fashion? As well as a technical breakdown of everything that can be learned from them. Is there no way to disobey in a productive way? Or is our only choice to agree to being bullied into submission for pointless reasons?
        VectorLock 8y ago
        Sure go ahead if it makes you feel better. I appreciate the whole "information wants to be free, man!" mindset.
        bandushrew 8y ago
        I mean, as soon as those docs are out of date, which will happen naturally and probably pretty quickly, you will be providing access to out of date/wrong documentation....and that will hurt the developer directly. Just let them be the source of truth for documentation about the SDK. Honestly, its best for everyone concerned.
        bunderbunder 8y ago
        > What seems true is that both ipfs and blockchain technologies will make these legal tools obsolete. I doubt it. More likely, it will make it easier to get yourself into hot water. Committing a tort (in this case, violating the terms of a license agreement) is one thing, and, while lawyers might word their comments strongly, they're leaving you a very easy out here. Committing a tort that can't be undone, but doing it on some sort of indelible public record, is probably just ensuring that you will get dragged into expensive legal proceedings. The current law still says that they have to defend their copyright in order to keep their copyright, so you won't really have left them with any other choice.
        nl 8y ago
        While I agree with your post, it isn’t true that they have to defend copyright to keep it. That is trademarks, which is a completely different form of IP protection.
    - pwinnski 8y ago
      To distribute docs to yourself, you download them or store them on "cloud" resources available to yourself. You are distributing the docs to any and all. The fact that nobody has taken you up on your offer is irrelevant.
- XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 8y ago
  > And I would find it interesting to be able to claim that magic leap has sued me for distributing 3 month old api docs to myself. Do you have that much money to burn?
- arkades 8y ago
  > If it benefits others. That’s all I care about. I don’t see this benefiting anyone at all, so please put aside talking about this like a martyr. You took someone else’s property and publicly hosted it. Dropbox or gdrive or sticking it on a private ftp or emailing it to yourself all would have done the job just fine - but you chose to do it publicly. It’s not 1985; you have plenty of resources for making files conveniently accessible without violating folks’ IP rights. And then you got told to Stop It. You didn’t get sued, though you could have. You didn’t get DMCA’d, though you could have. You got the legalese version of “cut the shit”. So, what principle are you standing up for? Your right to appropriate other folks’ property against their wishes? To distribute it against their wishes? To then make sure they ask you pretty please to stop?q You’re not protecting the community. This isn’t a principle that people who make IP for a living are going to especially rally around. Frankly, I think the answers here have been exceedingly courteous - beyond the point of reason. It’s like Pirate Bay crying foul about being “bullied” by the companies whose property they’re stealing.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

Throwing yourself under this legal bus isn't going to benefit you or anybody else. I mean you can poke them as much as you want, but is this the hill you want to die on?

shawn 8y ago

If it benefits others. That’s all I care about. It seems like tolerating this may not be in the best interest of the community going forward. And I would find it interesting to be able to claim that magic leap has sued me for distributing 3 month old api docs to myself.

VectorLock 8y ago
What benefit do you think it would give others? It looks like they're pretty clearly and understandably asserting their rights. Are you making their API docs publicly accessible?
- shawn 8y ago
  All other arguments aside, I’m uncomfortable with a world in which developers are bullied and intimidated by large corporations over nothing. In this case, it’s 3 month old api docs distributed to myself, which may be absurd enough to possibly make a stand over. The central issue appears to be the idea that in order to defend against anyone, they have to defend against everyone. And in cases like this, I’m not sure that’s to the public benefit.
  - VectorLock 8y ago
    People in that comment thread described it more eloquently and precisely than I could but it really comes down to "use it or lose it." Would it have been _nice_ for them to send you a politely worded message like "oh hey soo could you take down our docs kthx!" but it lacks the legal precision to defend their copyrights. Lawyer are, unfortunately, seldom paid to be nice.
    - shawn 8y ago
      Nah, I don’t blame the formality. What seems true is that both ipfs and blockchain technologies will make these legal tools obsolete. What if we were to set up a project in response to this that made the Magic Leap API docs available in a distributed fashion? As well as a technical breakdown of everything that can be learned from them. Is there no way to disobey in a productive way? Or is our only choice to agree to being bullied into submission for pointless reasons?
      - VectorLock 8y ago
        Sure go ahead if it makes you feel better. I appreciate the whole "information wants to be free, man!" mindset.
      - bandushrew 8y ago
        I mean, as soon as those docs are out of date, which will happen naturally and probably pretty quickly, you will be providing access to out of date/wrong documentation....and that will hurt the developer directly. Just let them be the source of truth for documentation about the SDK. Honestly, its best for everyone concerned.
      - bunderbunder 8y ago
        > What seems true is that both ipfs and blockchain technologies will make these legal tools obsolete. I doubt it. More likely, it will make it easier to get yourself into hot water. Committing a tort (in this case, violating the terms of a license agreement) is one thing, and, while lawyers might word their comments strongly, they're leaving you a very easy out here. Committing a tort that can't be undone, but doing it on some sort of indelible public record, is probably just ensuring that you will get dragged into expensive legal proceedings. The current law still says that they have to defend their copyright in order to keep their copyright, so you won't really have left them with any other choice.
        nl 8y ago
        While I agree with your post, it isn’t true that they have to defend copyright to keep it. That is trademarks, which is a completely different form of IP protection.
  - pwinnski 8y ago
    To distribute docs to yourself, you download them or store them on "cloud" resources available to yourself. You are distributing the docs to any and all. The fact that nobody has taken you up on your offer is irrelevant.
XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 8y ago
> And I would find it interesting to be able to claim that magic leap has sued me for distributing 3 month old api docs to myself. Do you have that much money to burn?
arkades 8y ago
> If it benefits others. That’s all I care about. I don’t see this benefiting anyone at all, so please put aside talking about this like a martyr. You took someone else’s property and publicly hosted it. Dropbox or gdrive or sticking it on a private ftp or emailing it to yourself all would have done the job just fine - but you chose to do it publicly. It’s not 1985; you have plenty of resources for making files conveniently accessible without violating folks’ IP rights. And then you got told to Stop It. You didn’t get sued, though you could have. You didn’t get DMCA’d, though you could have. You got the legalese version of “cut the shit”. So, what principle are you standing up for? Your right to appropriate other folks’ property against their wishes? To distribute it against their wishes? To then make sure they ask you pretty please to stop?q You’re not protecting the community. This isn’t a principle that people who make IP for a living are going to especially rally around. Frankly, I think the answers here have been exceedingly courteous - beyond the point of reason. It’s like Pirate Bay crying foul about being “bullied” by the companies whose property they’re stealing.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]