4 ms·

For me, the problem with thinking about time as just another dimension is that while we can move through the spatial dimensions, with time we are either locked

For me, the problem with thinking about time as just another dimension is that while we can move through the spatial dimensions, with time we are either locked in one place or flowing at an absolutely constant rate* (depending on the bird/frog perspective). *extrapolating from general relativity.

robotkdick 8y ago
Based on the comments, there seems to be a barrier to the capabilities of our understanding timespace, which makes it extremely difficult to explain or teach, but that doesn't make it less interesting. The existential barrier lies in understanding time as a benefit to survival. There's little benefit to most of us I can see. In fact, you could argue that an understanding of time-space may lead one to conclude "what is the point of getting up and going to work?" On the other hand, engaging with time as understood by the frog (in the article) and using it to survive better in the future (i.e., make more money and whatnot), is a definitive advantage to birds, frogs, and physicists alike. According to this view, the most useful application of time-space as a concept are science fiction books and movies, which may produce income. Otherwise, there's not yet a clear product to go along with the research, which we can point to and say, "See! There is time-space. $9.99 on sale." I guess such a perspective may reveal me as an economist. News to me. Perhaps by not studying economy (and merely staying in the same place) time-space has delivered to me an understanding of the subject of economy.
leeeeech 8y ago
It's easier if you consider that you and the whole galaxy are moving around the universe at 10% of light speed and that it's not exactly you who moves, but the space bending around us, just like time. On yet another point, you might imagine time as a projection of the space. We like to think of time as the domain often enough, but perhaps it's the opposite. After all, some event needs to takes place, for a time step to be noticeable.
tylershuster 8y ago
, said the tadpole in the river. I agree in general with your sentiment: this is what prevents me from thinking lucidly about time as yet another dimension. But to provide some examples that counteract that, I think about instances when time seems to have been standing still, going slower or even "time flying." Then I think about how I remember those times, which is a form of time travel. People on disassociates often have experiences in which they have travelled in time. It seems, like I alluded to in my metaphor, that we _can_ travel in time; we're just not very adept yet. We don't have much control over our time traveling. Conversely, to argue that we have control over our physical transport isn't entirely accurate either. We have a certain amount of space that we can travel in, and we were once much less adept at doing so. Additionally, we only have a certain amount of time to travel physically before we are disintegrated, which further wears down the assertion that we are masters of our physical location.
csomar 8y ago
> flowing at an absolutely constant rate Not really. We are moving at an instantaneous speed. Wanna try it? Go to bed, you'll wake up almost instantly but 8 hours later. The perception of time happens in your brain. The speed is just your brain processing information. Not necessarily all human perceive time the same way (you can never know, heh?) but we can be pretty certain about the order of the spacetime flow.
- ci5er 8y ago
  I believe that GP is referring to the idea that objects are moving at a constant velocity in space-time. In that model, things that are moving rapidly (from our perspective) in the 3-space of, ummm, space, are moving slowly along the time axis of space-time (think of photons moving at the speed of light, but where the velocity along the time-axis is slowed to 'zero') and things moving slowly in space (like us!) are really booking it along the time axis of the space-time 4-space.
  - csomar 8y ago
    Photons are moving in speed of light in our perspective. They are stationary (both in space and time) in their perspective.
- 3pt14159 8y ago
  I have an eerily accurate internal clock. In high school I repeatedly awoke around two or three second before my alarm clock went off in my washroom. Enough time to get there and turn it off just as the first beep was starting. Unless I'm sick (or otherwise mentally altered) I know how much time has passed.
  - ianai 8y ago
    It’s not like our brains actually turn off while we sleep. Being that aware of time seems like a good trait though. Congrats!
tim333 8y ago
Yeah not just another dimension but another dimension with special properties.

robotkdick 8y ago

Based on the comments, there seems to be a barrier to the capabilities of our understanding timespace, which makes it extremely difficult to explain or teach, but that doesn't make it less interesting. The existential barrier lies in understanding time as a benefit to survival. There's little benefit to most of us I can see. In fact, you could argue that an understanding of time-space may lead one to conclude "what is the point of getting up and going to work?" On the other hand, engaging with time as understood by the frog (in the article) and using it to survive better in the future (i.e., make more money and whatnot), is a definitive advantage to birds, frogs, and physicists alike. According to this view, the most useful application of time-space as a concept are science fiction books and movies, which may produce income. Otherwise, there's not yet a clear product to go along with the research, which we can point to and say, "See! There is time-space. $9.99 on sale." I guess such a perspective may reveal me as an economist. News to me. Perhaps by not studying economy (and merely staying in the same place) time-space has delivered to me an understanding of the subject of economy.

leeeeech 8y ago

It's easier if you consider that you and the whole galaxy are moving around the universe at 10% of light speed and that it's not exactly you who moves, but the space bending around us, just like time. On yet another point, you might imagine time as a projection of the space. We like to think of time as the domain often enough, but perhaps it's the opposite. After all, some event needs to takes place, for a time step to be noticeable.

tylershuster 8y ago

, said the tadpole in the river. I agree in general with your sentiment: this is what prevents me from thinking lucidly about time as yet another dimension. But to provide some examples that counteract that, I think about instances when time seems to have been standing still, going slower or even "time flying." Then I think about how I remember those times, which is a form of time travel. People on disassociates often have experiences in which they have travelled in time. It seems, like I alluded to in my metaphor, that we _can_ travel in time; we're just not very adept yet. We don't have much control over our time traveling. Conversely, to argue that we have control over our physical transport isn't entirely accurate either. We have a certain amount of space that we can travel in, and we were once much less adept at doing so. Additionally, we only have a certain amount of time to travel physically before we are disintegrated, which further wears down the assertion that we are masters of our physical location.

csomar 8y ago

> flowing at an absolutely constant rate Not really. We are moving at an instantaneous speed. Wanna try it? Go to bed, you'll wake up almost instantly but 8 hours later. The perception of time happens in your brain. The speed is just your brain processing information. Not necessarily all human perceive time the same way (you can never know, heh?) but we can be pretty certain about the order of the spacetime flow.

ci5er 8y ago
I believe that GP is referring to the idea that objects are moving at a constant velocity in space-time. In that model, things that are moving rapidly (from our perspective) in the 3-space of, ummm, space, are moving slowly along the time axis of space-time (think of photons moving at the speed of light, but where the velocity along the time-axis is slowed to 'zero') and things moving slowly in space (like us!) are really booking it along the time axis of the space-time 4-space.
- csomar 8y ago
  Photons are moving in speed of light in our perspective. They are stationary (both in space and time) in their perspective.
3pt14159 8y ago
I have an eerily accurate internal clock. In high school I repeatedly awoke around two or three second before my alarm clock went off in my washroom. Enough time to get there and turn it off just as the first beep was starting. Unless I'm sick (or otherwise mentally altered) I know how much time has passed.
- ianai 8y ago
  It’s not like our brains actually turn off while we sleep. Being that aware of time seems like a good trait though. Congrats!

tim333 8y ago

Yeah not just another dimension but another dimension with special properties.