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Haha eventually with all this theory they will just declare "this is what consciousness is!" and tell all of us that our experiences of consciousness are invali
by haskellandchill 8y ago
Haha eventually with all this theory they will just declare "this is what consciousness is!" and tell all of us that our experiences of consciousness are invalid. Most likely we will sit down and take it, like ok, you win scientists. Then we will be replaced by dumb but efficient robots. Yay.
- naasking 8y agoKind of like they declared "this is what life is", and they were probably right to do so. Vitalism and dualistic theories of consciousness both belong in the dustbin of history.
- haskellandchill 8y agoI belong in the dustbin of history, we're hanging out in the dustbin and I'm throwing a party. Everyone can come wrestle in the mud.
- resource0x 8y agoExpect a huge turnout. You will be amazed at how many of us are going to come :)
- lifthearth 8y agoI wonder sometimes if scientists will solve consciousness and realize that we should have just been partying and having fun with each other the whole time.
- financialsub 8y agoWe picked capitalism, it was a choice, and it says some people get to party sometimes, but not all of the time, unless they did a really good job once.
- taxicabjesus 8y ago> Vitalism and dualistic theories of consciousness both belong in the dustbin of history. Science adopted materialism as it's guiding philosophy prematurely. We've since added electromagnetism and quantum theory to science, but still the hope for the falsification of vitalism persists.
- naasking 8y agoWhat's premature about it? It seems to have been hugely successful given we're probably talking to each other from across the world. One could argue that, epistemically at least, a mathematical monism might be better placed as a foundation, but that doesn't change any of the facts we've discovered based on materialism. If you're in fact arguing for some sort of dualism, there is little reason to accept it beyond unconvincing philosophical speculation.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago"Unconvincing philosophical speculation" sounds like, to use the legal term, "assumes facts not in evidence". But to me, claiming that consciousness does not require dualism also seems to require facts not in evidence, that is, it seems to be merely unconvincing philosophical speculation.
- naasking 8y agoIf you want the nuanced argument: not requiring dualism to explain consciousness is indeed a belief, but founded on a long history of scientific success in toppling similar matters, and an analogously long history of failure to convince that consciousness will not fit into a scientific framework (for analogous reasons of vitalism's failure to do the same for life). So on balance of evidence, there is little reason to think dualism will ever be required and considerable reason to think it will not. So much so, that I firmly stand by my original statement. To clarify the "unconvincing philosophical speculation", I meant thought experiments, like p-zombies, that are supposed to convince one that there is something more to consciousness than can be captured by materialism, but which primarily appeal to vague intuitions and make use of semantic tricks of natural language to convince people that there's something of substance going on.
- haskellandchill 8y agoIf you think we have definitely answered the question of what life is... well you are going to do well in modern society and I am not. So you win.
- naasking 8y ago> If you think we have definitely answered the question of what life is No, but we realized that we don't need a definitive answer to recognize that there's no secret sauce as vitalism would require us to posit.
- haskellandchill 8y agoYea I’m not a fan of vitalism, I like falsifiable theories. Thanks Popper.