4 ms·

It's a shame he couldn't put that vision to a better use than advertising.

onetimemanytime 8y ago
Advertising is a very legitimate way of making money, lots of it. Now tracking people all over the web and other shady things, are a different story.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Advertising is a very legitimate way of making money Yes, just not a way to make something that improves our lives. Or even if you manage to make something that improves our lives, advertising is an incentive to pervert it and hold it back (e.g. you create a social network so people from all over the world can meet, then ads make you cripple it, force feed BS to them, milk them with spam, exploit their private data, and so on...)
  - J5892 8y ago
    How would you monetize it without ads? Instagram would have died an early death if you had to pay for it, and hiding certain features behind a pay wall would alienate 90% of the users.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >Instagram would have died an early death if you had to pay for it That would be a bonus. >hiding certain features behind a pay wall would alienate 90% of the users Only before they have conditioned differently from an industry that has been legally allowed to trade private information for ad money.
    - ionised 8y ago
      > Instagram would have died an early death if you had to pay for it I honestly don't think that would be a loss for humanity.
  - PerfectElement 8y ago
    I was able to build a legitimate business that improves people's lives. In order to make my product discoverable, I had to spend some money on advertising (not on Facebook in particular). There was no other reliable way to reach my target audience. I have also bought many products from other businesses that have made my life better. In most instances, I have only become aware of these products because these businesses have spent money on ad campaigns.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >I have also bought many products from other businesses that have made my life better. In most instances, I have only become aware of these products because these businesses have spent money on ad campaigns. That could have been a valid argument in 1970. Today we have the internet. Instead of advertising it's not perfectly possible and easy to have other means of discoverability: a) professional product reviews - a review site visit or Google search away b) actual user reviews -- an aggregator site or Google search away c) the product makers marketing material on their own website d) blogs from people using the product e) forums with people exchanging advice/complaints about the product f) videos of people unboxing, using, showcasing, etc the product g) the specs of the product, product manual, photos, etc online h) online communities around a product category i) for digital products, one could also try a trial/time limited/shortened /watermarked version of them j) for products we encounter physically on some shop's shelves and want to know more about them, a quick Google search or QR Code can take us to the product page (and/or all of the above) Unlike advertisement, none of these give an unfair lead to the maker than can spend more campaign money. What's best, most of these add informational value (like scores, real world complaints, professional reviewing, etc) that ads, by definition, don't have. We literally have more ways than ever to discover products, and to find the best products. Advertising is just random producers (random quality wise: just the company with the bigger pockets) shouting to make their wares stand out.
      - mateo411 8y ago
        I like how you brought up all of those examples for means of discovery. However, I think that almost all of those are a form of advertising. Perhaps the forum where people are giving advice would not be advertising. If any of these are on the internet, then people there will be pixel trackers, and people are going to measure the distinct number of impressions. I don't think this is a bad thing.

Advertising is a very legitimate way of making money, lots of it. Now tracking people all over the web and other shady things, are a different story.

coldtea 8y ago
>Advertising is a very legitimate way of making money Yes, just not a way to make something that improves our lives. Or even if you manage to make something that improves our lives, advertising is an incentive to pervert it and hold it back (e.g. you create a social network so people from all over the world can meet, then ads make you cripple it, force feed BS to them, milk them with spam, exploit their private data, and so on...)
- J5892 8y ago
  How would you monetize it without ads? Instagram would have died an early death if you had to pay for it, and hiding certain features behind a pay wall would alienate 90% of the users.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >Instagram would have died an early death if you had to pay for it That would be a bonus. >hiding certain features behind a pay wall would alienate 90% of the users Only before they have conditioned differently from an industry that has been legally allowed to trade private information for ad money.
  - ionised 8y ago
    > Instagram would have died an early death if you had to pay for it I honestly don't think that would be a loss for humanity.
- PerfectElement 8y ago
  I was able to build a legitimate business that improves people's lives. In order to make my product discoverable, I had to spend some money on advertising (not on Facebook in particular). There was no other reliable way to reach my target audience. I have also bought many products from other businesses that have made my life better. In most instances, I have only become aware of these products because these businesses have spent money on ad campaigns.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >I have also bought many products from other businesses that have made my life better. In most instances, I have only become aware of these products because these businesses have spent money on ad campaigns. That could have been a valid argument in 1970. Today we have the internet. Instead of advertising it's not perfectly possible and easy to have other means of discoverability: a) professional product reviews - a review site visit or Google search away b) actual user reviews -- an aggregator site or Google search away c) the product makers marketing material on their own website d) blogs from people using the product e) forums with people exchanging advice/complaints about the product f) videos of people unboxing, using, showcasing, etc the product g) the specs of the product, product manual, photos, etc online h) online communities around a product category i) for digital products, one could also try a trial/time limited/shortened /watermarked version of them j) for products we encounter physically on some shop's shelves and want to know more about them, a quick Google search or QR Code can take us to the product page (and/or all of the above) Unlike advertisement, none of these give an unfair lead to the maker than can spend more campaign money. What's best, most of these add informational value (like scores, real world complaints, professional reviewing, etc) that ads, by definition, don't have. We literally have more ways than ever to discover products, and to find the best products. Advertising is just random producers (random quality wise: just the company with the bigger pockets) shouting to make their wares stand out.
    - mateo411 8y ago
      I like how you brought up all of those examples for means of discovery. However, I think that almost all of those are a form of advertising. Perhaps the forum where people are giving advice would not be advertising. If any of these are on the internet, then people there will be pixel trackers, and people are going to measure the distinct number of impressions. I don't think this is a bad thing.