5 ms·

The author rightly objects to hiring interns based on their race or professed sexual orientation: "This time around, however, the LLVM foundation decided to pa

The author rightly objects to hiring interns based on their race or professed sexual orientation: "This time around, however, the LLVM foundation decided to pay for an internship themselves, and agreed a partnership with an organization called Outreachy. This collaboration saw LLVM adopt interesting new eligibility criteria. Outreachy’s rules state that an applicant must “meet one of the following criteria”: You live any where in the world and you identify as a woman (cis or trans), trans man, or genderqueer person (including genderfluid or genderfree). You live in the United States or you are a U.S. national or permanent resident living aboard, AND you are a person of any gender who is Black/African American, Hispanic/Latin@ [sic], Native American/American Indian, Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian, or Pacific Islander"

titanix2 8y ago
How the hell are you supposed to prove that you "identify as woman" if asked? If they follow the ideology at work here, everyone can identify as any gender, so basically everyone can apply by pretending to be a woman. Then they can make a fuss about being discriminated if Outreachy doesn’t acknowledge they are indeed indentifying as a woman. This whole minory/discrimination is a double edged sword.
- nooron 8y ago
  But how common is it actually to pretend to be a gender you are not for something like this? Displaying yourself as trans brings huge social opprobrium in most places. I can’t imagine anyone I know pretending to be a trans woman to get a job. Do you have any evidence this is a common problem?
  - rainbowmverse 8y ago
    Someone willing to take on the stigma and dangers for an opportunity instead of go for one of the already abundant opportunities available for them may not be entirely cis anyway.
    - horseLOGIC 8y ago
      There's actually not that many opportunities for internships on C/C++ compilers. I mean, maybe the GCC people will take you, but... yeah.
      - jonhendry18 8y ago
        "There's actually not that many opportunities for internships on C/C++ compilers." It seems like there are a lot of llvm-related projects outside of llvm itself, which might mean there are C/C++ compiler-adjacent internships out there.
    - mantas 8y ago
      Lying for the sake of getting $$$ is OK in many parts of the world. Especially if you stick it up a dumb fat westerners'. Source: born & raised in (ex-)USSR
  - prepend 8y ago
    I suppose I’m fortunate that displaying oneself as trans in my country and state (US south) does not bring huge social opprobrium. Interestingly, you’d be surprised who is trans and who is cis as it’s not like people have a sign over their head “I’m trans opprobriate me.” So, in my city at least, it would be as simple as checking a box identifying as trans and no social stigma would even be possible. Unless the potential employer “outed” the applicant somehow. But that seems not only unethical but illegal (again, at least in my state). Since I live in a prett backwoods area, I assume there are many other areas that are much better.
    - rainbowmverse 8y ago
      The south is weird like this. Some places it's great, some places you'd never know it was further in the future than 1959.
      - horseLOGIC 8y ago
        To be fair, in many rural places you don't want to fall out of the norm on any spectrum and there's no opportunity for practically anything. That's why you move out.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    You don't have to display as a gender in order to identify as it though. Supposedly gender is about self-identification now, not outward characteristics, so if LLVM are up on the progressive playbook they know they can't reject you for not "passing" as female if you claim to identify as female.
  - horseLOGIC 8y ago
    > But how common is it actually to pretend to be a gender you are not for something like this? Who says it's a problem? It's not up to anyone else to judge my motivation for changing my gender. If I want to change my gender for 10% discount on a pair of sneakers, that should be my right. Otherwise, where do you draw the line and how do you verify it?
  - Joeboy 8y ago
    Not very common. But if people incentivize it it's obviously going to become more common. Vaguely relevant recent events: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/22/mexico-elections-fake-transgender-candidates-disqualified https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/22/mexico-electio... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/23/two-heterosexual-irish-men-marry-to-avoid-inheritance-tax-on-house https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/23/two-heterosexu... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/labour-allows-male-activist-stand-womens-officer-identifies/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/labour-allows-ma...
- horseLOGIC 8y ago
  Just put your preferred pronoun on your twitter page, and as long as it's not male and the gender you were assigned at birth, you should be good to go. As soon as that internship is over, you can just change back. That's what genderfluidity is about, right?
tdb7893 8y ago
By the way the @ in "Latin@" is a gender neutral form in Spanish that some people use.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
superflit 8y ago
I identify my gender as "Helicopter." Mostly when I am exercising my "gender rights" I stand with my arms wide and start circling in happiness. Now If you downvote me you are a heliphobic. And nobody can say I am wrong because gender is a social construct and if you imply that I am wrong, you lack empathy, and you must be those hateful white males everybody talks about, or you know... that person who voted for the "guy"... That should be sarcasm, but I am not sure anymore. I have three races in my bloodline but nowadays hating white males is a virtue signaling.
- sctb 8y ago
  If you have a point please make it more substantively than by helicopter. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
anothergoogler 8y ago
Can a biological man identify as a trans man? Asking for a friend.

titanix2 8y ago

How the hell are you supposed to prove that you "identify as woman" if asked? If they follow the ideology at work here, everyone can identify as any gender, so basically everyone can apply by pretending to be a woman. Then they can make a fuss about being discriminated if Outreachy doesn’t acknowledge they are indeed indentifying as a woman. This whole minory/discrimination is a double edged sword.

nooron 8y ago
But how common is it actually to pretend to be a gender you are not for something like this? Displaying yourself as trans brings huge social opprobrium in most places. I can’t imagine anyone I know pretending to be a trans woman to get a job. Do you have any evidence this is a common problem?
- rainbowmverse 8y ago
  Someone willing to take on the stigma and dangers for an opportunity instead of go for one of the already abundant opportunities available for them may not be entirely cis anyway.
  - horseLOGIC 8y ago
    There's actually not that many opportunities for internships on C/C++ compilers. I mean, maybe the GCC people will take you, but... yeah.
    - jonhendry18 8y ago
      "There's actually not that many opportunities for internships on C/C++ compilers." It seems like there are a lot of llvm-related projects outside of llvm itself, which might mean there are C/C++ compiler-adjacent internships out there.
  - mantas 8y ago
    Lying for the sake of getting $$$ is OK in many parts of the world. Especially if you stick it up a dumb fat westerners'. Source: born & raised in (ex-)USSR
- prepend 8y ago
  I suppose I’m fortunate that displaying oneself as trans in my country and state (US south) does not bring huge social opprobrium. Interestingly, you’d be surprised who is trans and who is cis as it’s not like people have a sign over their head “I’m trans opprobriate me.” So, in my city at least, it would be as simple as checking a box identifying as trans and no social stigma would even be possible. Unless the potential employer “outed” the applicant somehow. But that seems not only unethical but illegal (again, at least in my state). Since I live in a prett backwoods area, I assume there are many other areas that are much better.
  - rainbowmverse 8y ago
    The south is weird like this. Some places it's great, some places you'd never know it was further in the future than 1959.
    - horseLOGIC 8y ago
      To be fair, in many rural places you don't want to fall out of the norm on any spectrum and there's no opportunity for practically anything. That's why you move out.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  You don't have to display as a gender in order to identify as it though. Supposedly gender is about self-identification now, not outward characteristics, so if LLVM are up on the progressive playbook they know they can't reject you for not "passing" as female if you claim to identify as female.
- horseLOGIC 8y ago
  > But how common is it actually to pretend to be a gender you are not for something like this? Who says it's a problem? It's not up to anyone else to judge my motivation for changing my gender. If I want to change my gender for 10% discount on a pair of sneakers, that should be my right. Otherwise, where do you draw the line and how do you verify it?
- Joeboy 8y ago
  Not very common. But if people incentivize it it's obviously going to become more common. Vaguely relevant recent events: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/22/mexico-elections-fake-transgender-candidates-disqualified https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/22/mexico-electio... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/23/two-heterosexual-irish-men-marry-to-avoid-inheritance-tax-on-house https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/23/two-heterosexu... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/labour-allows-male-activist-stand-womens-officer-identifies/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/labour-allows-ma...
horseLOGIC 8y ago
Just put your preferred pronoun on your twitter page, and as long as it's not male and the gender you were assigned at birth, you should be good to go. As soon as that internship is over, you can just change back. That's what genderfluidity is about, right?

tdb7893 8y ago

By the way the @ in "Latin@" is a gender neutral form in Spanish that some people use.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

superflit 8y ago

I identify my gender as "Helicopter." Mostly when I am exercising my "gender rights" I stand with my arms wide and start circling in happiness. Now If you downvote me you are a heliphobic. And nobody can say I am wrong because gender is a social construct and if you imply that I am wrong, you lack empathy, and you must be those hateful white males everybody talks about, or you know... that person who voted for the "guy"... That should be sarcasm, but I am not sure anymore. I have three races in my bloodline but nowadays hating white males is a virtue signaling.

sctb 8y ago
If you have a point please make it more substantively than by helicopter. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

anothergoogler 8y ago

Can a biological man identify as a trans man? Asking for a friend.