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I'm generally pro-immigration, but with a population of less than 5 million and a housing affordability crisis, 70k a year simply isn't sustainable.

oblio 8y ago
Isn't New Zealand hugely underpopulated? I fear that their real problem is elsewhere... Just checked quickly: * the UK: 65 million people, 242 000 sqkm -> crowded * Romania: 19 million people, 238 000 sqkm -> not that crowded * New Zealand: 4.8 million people, 268 000 sqkm -> it's definitely not overpopulated... Edit: Heh, I also checked the density, it's the 203rd country in the world regarding population density. There's definitely a ton of space for people there, if the government wants it and is diligent about promoting construction of affordable housing.
- Timpy 8y ago
  I don't think people per sqkm is the most relevant metric of overpopulation, it's more like people per available resources.
  - oblio 8y ago
    New Zealand is famous for being very resource rich, so I'm not sure I share your concern. NZ is an exporter for many of its resources: http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/natural-resources http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/nat...
- ElCapitanMarkla 8y ago
  Land wise yeah theres heaps of room, but infrastructure / housing wise, not so much.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  It's not a population density problem but a housing supply problem. There just simply aren't enough houses in NZ. Simply finding somewhere to live can be a struggle, let alone somewhere affordable.
  - oblio 8y ago
    So it's artificial scarcity, basically. Someone/something is blocking development, right?
    - toomanybeersies 8y ago
      It's a series of problems that confound each other, some artificial, some organic. First, we have geography. Auckland is located on an isthmus that ranges from 1 km wide to 10 km wide. It's basically on an island. It's also covered in volcanoes. Wellington is bound by the sea on one side, and hills on the other. It's wedged in the middle. They can, and have, expanded into the sea using land reclamation, but there's only so much of that you can do. There's only so much land you can put buildings on, which is a major problem when growing. NZ also suffers from NIMBYism. People in NZ don't want to live next door to apartments, and they also don't really want to live in apartments either. Everyone wants to live in a detached house with a back yard. This problem is particularly prevalent in Auckland. The poor state of public transport and congestion on the roads in Auckland also limits how far out you can live if you work in the CBD. And lastly, the rate of immigration has been so high that they just can't build houses or infrastructure fast enough to keep up. So these 3 factors have worked together to cause a severe housing shortage in Wellington and Auckland in particular. Christchurch is the only city where house prices and rents are stable or decreasing. However, the city suffered a major earthquake in 2011 which knocked out a lot of the housing supply. Whole suburbs were razed, and will never be built on again. A lot of houses only needed remedial work, rather than full reconstructions, so the housing supply has bounced back reasonably quickly. Christchurch is also the only city of the 3 main cities in NZ that is built on flat plains. Christchurch has practically unlimited space to grow inland. Most immigrants move to Auckland though, so Auckland has borne the brunt of this housing crisis.
      - madaxe_again 8y ago
        Christchurch was where I was looking at starting the business, having visited all of NZ’s major and most of the minor towns and cities - but it seems it’s not really a factor in their decision-making process.

oblio 8y ago

Isn't New Zealand hugely underpopulated? I fear that their real problem is elsewhere... Just checked quickly: * the UK: 65 million people, 242 000 sqkm -> crowded * Romania: 19 million people, 238 000 sqkm -> not that crowded * New Zealand: 4.8 million people, 268 000 sqkm -> it's definitely not overpopulated... Edit: Heh, I also checked the density, it's the 203rd country in the world regarding population density. There's definitely a ton of space for people there, if the government wants it and is diligent about promoting construction of affordable housing.

Timpy 8y ago
I don't think people per sqkm is the most relevant metric of overpopulation, it's more like people per available resources.
- oblio 8y ago
  New Zealand is famous for being very resource rich, so I'm not sure I share your concern. NZ is an exporter for many of its resources: http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/natural-resources http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/nat...
ElCapitanMarkla 8y ago
Land wise yeah theres heaps of room, but infrastructure / housing wise, not so much.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
It's not a population density problem but a housing supply problem. There just simply aren't enough houses in NZ. Simply finding somewhere to live can be a struggle, let alone somewhere affordable.
- oblio 8y ago
  So it's artificial scarcity, basically. Someone/something is blocking development, right?
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    It's a series of problems that confound each other, some artificial, some organic. First, we have geography. Auckland is located on an isthmus that ranges from 1 km wide to 10 km wide. It's basically on an island. It's also covered in volcanoes. Wellington is bound by the sea on one side, and hills on the other. It's wedged in the middle. They can, and have, expanded into the sea using land reclamation, but there's only so much of that you can do. There's only so much land you can put buildings on, which is a major problem when growing. NZ also suffers from NIMBYism. People in NZ don't want to live next door to apartments, and they also don't really want to live in apartments either. Everyone wants to live in a detached house with a back yard. This problem is particularly prevalent in Auckland. The poor state of public transport and congestion on the roads in Auckland also limits how far out you can live if you work in the CBD. And lastly, the rate of immigration has been so high that they just can't build houses or infrastructure fast enough to keep up. So these 3 factors have worked together to cause a severe housing shortage in Wellington and Auckland in particular. Christchurch is the only city where house prices and rents are stable or decreasing. However, the city suffered a major earthquake in 2011 which knocked out a lot of the housing supply. Whole suburbs were razed, and will never be built on again. A lot of houses only needed remedial work, rather than full reconstructions, so the housing supply has bounced back reasonably quickly. Christchurch is also the only city of the 3 main cities in NZ that is built on flat plains. Christchurch has practically unlimited space to grow inland. Most immigrants move to Auckland though, so Auckland has borne the brunt of this housing crisis.
    - madaxe_again 8y ago
      Christchurch was where I was looking at starting the business, having visited all of NZ’s major and most of the minor towns and cities - but it seems it’s not really a factor in their decision-making process.