6 ms·

Or at a minimum know where/what your modem is. Unplug that bad boy and all your IOT stuff goes back ot being things, not of the internet.

GabeWeiss_ 8y ago
The article calls this out to an extent. The problem here, is if you unplug it, the abuser knows, and often then physical retribution, or at least abuse escalation can occur. It's a VERY difficult problem to solve IMO. At least being on equal footing with everyone in the household so it's not seen as an avenue of control (which most domestic abuse scenarios are all about) would be a great first step.
- jstarfish 8y ago
  If there is one to be found, the solution to this is not going to be a technical one. Local switches and use of passwords can still be monitored or disabled. Tape on cameras will attract retribution. You literally cannot beat the house at its own game. In a few states I'm aware of, if you commit any form of domestic abuse and deprive the victim access to a phone, it's a separate charge. It can't/doesn't stop it from happening but it disincentivizes it by making the punishment worse. I suspect a lot of this IoT nonsense will eventually attract the same riders. A documented history of remotely tampering with locks or lights, blasting heat in the summer and blaring music at full volume in any context will eventually become factors in a case of abuse.
  - floatingatoll 8y ago
    They can already be factors in a case of abuse today; it’s simply that few people know how to inspect and legally request the service access logs for their devices’ online services.
  - GabeWeiss_ 8y ago
    I agree with this. I think the real solution is going to be to rewrite laws to account for digital abuses. This is still true not just domestically, but a lot of the large criminal actions don't take into account digital equivalence. They're catching up, slowly but surely, but it's definitely a slow process.
- bluescrn 8y ago
  If you're in a relationship where you fear retribution for turning off an annoying gadget, then the relationship is already abusive, and it's time to get out. The gadget is not the problem
  - speedplane 8y ago
    True, but it’s another “attack vector”, and more nefarious in some ways because it can be couched as technical wherewithal.
  - astura 8y ago
    Some people don't have the power to leave an abusive situation (children). Source: spent my entire childhood in a domestic abuse and domestic violence situation. Also abusers often work very hard to make it difficult for the abused to leave: make them quit their job, cut off their outside social ties, make them pregnant against their will, etc.
  - GabeWeiss_ 8y ago
    Victim shaming isn't acceptable. Sorry. You're blaming the person being abused for not leaving. There's a MULTITUDE of reasons (as other comments have already stated) that people aren't enabled to get out of an abusive relationship.
floatingatoll 8y ago
Nope. August smart locks and Hue smart lights will continue accepting Bluetooth commands from previously-authorized clients while in offline mode. There are only two viable choices: 1) Logout and/or factory reset all devices. 2) Delete the online accounts associated with all devices. I recommend both, as otherwise there are edge cases where unsafety could remain. Disclaimer: I did #2 when I left a long-term partner (along with a complete list of all credentials that needed to be rotated or disabled), both to be able to provide her absolute certainty that I could not somehow spy on her consummating her affair, and to ensure that I could not be placed into legal jeopardy by either of them as punishment for knowing that he existed at all. There is a serious legal risk if you retain access after moveout. Do not permit that risk to impact you.
- jpindar 8y ago
  Hue lights are controlled by their bridge via Zigbee, not directly from a client via Bluetooth. Without an internet connection, they can still be controlled by a client that is on the same LAN as the bridge.
  - floatingatoll 8y ago
    The bridge only permits authorized LAN clients. Pairing requires using the physical “confirm” button in the center of the bridge itself. Being on the same LAN is not sufficient. EDIT: Oh, yes, you’re right about the “it’s not Bluetooth” nitpick, for whatever good that is to this conversation :)
- bigiain 8y ago
  While not perfect, it still helps. The threat from an abusive ex with internet access is a lot larger than an abusive ex within bluetooth range. I maintain a version of your "complete list of credentials" professionally - and every time I've left a job I've supplied that list saying: "Here are the company-related credentials to which I've had access. This list is best-effort and may not be complete. Please respond acknowledging I've advised you to change these and any other credentials I've ever had access to."

GabeWeiss_ 8y ago

The article calls this out to an extent. The problem here, is if you unplug it, the abuser knows, and often then physical retribution, or at least abuse escalation can occur. It's a VERY difficult problem to solve IMO. At least being on equal footing with everyone in the household so it's not seen as an avenue of control (which most domestic abuse scenarios are all about) would be a great first step.

jstarfish 8y ago
If there is one to be found, the solution to this is not going to be a technical one. Local switches and use of passwords can still be monitored or disabled. Tape on cameras will attract retribution. You literally cannot beat the house at its own game. In a few states I'm aware of, if you commit any form of domestic abuse and deprive the victim access to a phone, it's a separate charge. It can't/doesn't stop it from happening but it disincentivizes it by making the punishment worse. I suspect a lot of this IoT nonsense will eventually attract the same riders. A documented history of remotely tampering with locks or lights, blasting heat in the summer and blaring music at full volume in any context will eventually become factors in a case of abuse.
- floatingatoll 8y ago
  They can already be factors in a case of abuse today; it’s simply that few people know how to inspect and legally request the service access logs for their devices’ online services.
- GabeWeiss_ 8y ago
  I agree with this. I think the real solution is going to be to rewrite laws to account for digital abuses. This is still true not just domestically, but a lot of the large criminal actions don't take into account digital equivalence. They're catching up, slowly but surely, but it's definitely a slow process.
bluescrn 8y ago
If you're in a relationship where you fear retribution for turning off an annoying gadget, then the relationship is already abusive, and it's time to get out. The gadget is not the problem
- speedplane 8y ago
  True, but it’s another “attack vector”, and more nefarious in some ways because it can be couched as technical wherewithal.
- astura 8y ago
  Some people don't have the power to leave an abusive situation (children). Source: spent my entire childhood in a domestic abuse and domestic violence situation. Also abusers often work very hard to make it difficult for the abused to leave: make them quit their job, cut off their outside social ties, make them pregnant against their will, etc.
- GabeWeiss_ 8y ago
  Victim shaming isn't acceptable. Sorry. You're blaming the person being abused for not leaving. There's a MULTITUDE of reasons (as other comments have already stated) that people aren't enabled to get out of an abusive relationship.

floatingatoll 8y ago

Nope. August smart locks and Hue smart lights will continue accepting Bluetooth commands from previously-authorized clients while in offline mode. There are only two viable choices: 1) Logout and/or factory reset all devices. 2) Delete the online accounts associated with all devices. I recommend both, as otherwise there are edge cases where unsafety could remain. Disclaimer: I did #2 when I left a long-term partner (along with a complete list of all credentials that needed to be rotated or disabled), both to be able to provide her absolute certainty that I could not somehow spy on her consummating her affair, and to ensure that I could not be placed into legal jeopardy by either of them as punishment for knowing that he existed at all. There is a serious legal risk if you retain access after moveout. Do not permit that risk to impact you.

jpindar 8y ago
Hue lights are controlled by their bridge via Zigbee, not directly from a client via Bluetooth. Without an internet connection, they can still be controlled by a client that is on the same LAN as the bridge.
- floatingatoll 8y ago
  The bridge only permits authorized LAN clients. Pairing requires using the physical “confirm” button in the center of the bridge itself. Being on the same LAN is not sufficient. EDIT: Oh, yes, you’re right about the “it’s not Bluetooth” nitpick, for whatever good that is to this conversation :)
bigiain 8y ago
While not perfect, it still helps. The threat from an abusive ex with internet access is a lot larger than an abusive ex within bluetooth range. I maintain a version of your "complete list of credentials" professionally - and every time I've left a job I've supplied that list saying: "Here are the company-related credentials to which I've had access. This list is best-effort and may not be complete. Please respond acknowledging I've advised you to change these and any other credentials I've ever had access to."