Oh, don't get me wrong, I totally agree. You can definitely create lean & mean stuff in Java, it just doesn't seem to generally be the Culture of Java. And whi

Oh, don't get me wrong, I totally agree. You can definitely create lean & mean stuff in Java, it just doesn't seem to generally be the Culture of Java. And while idle memory usage isn't an amazing metric, it's still pretty indicative of bloat. For us, in the current state of things, memory usage is what determines our cloud costs. Setting heap maximums and things seems to somewhat work, although the Spring apps with a max heap set to 512MB still seem to be able to overrun their cgroup max memory of 1GB. There's the new experimental options to have the JVM look at its cgroup limits and manage memory based on that, but due to reasons we don't have a new enough JVM yet. For me and my tastes, Go's pretty tough to beat in the overall productivity/efficiency/reliability set of tradeoffs. I fully admit that that's a taste thing. It's not even that it's amazing at any particular thing, it's actually not really that amazing at all. It just doesn't have anything that particularly annoys me. And the community is awesome: they really don't do the 200kloc framework stuff; the attitude is generally "why do you need all that?" and I agree.