4 ms·

Maybe it's because I'm in the 50+ age category, but I think tips are confusing for a different reason. Yes, of course, it's trivial to calculate a percentage

by hsitz 8y ago

Maybe it's because I'm in the 50+ age category, but I think tips are confusing for a different reason. Yes, of course, it's trivial to calculate a percentage of an amount. The confusion is in deciding what percentage to give. 15% - 20% is standard, and always has been, for a full service, sit down restaurant. The tip makes some sense, based on the service given to you, some level of tip being roughly commensurate with the amount of service. But what percentage am I supposed to tip in a restaurant where I order at a counter, bus my own table, and merely have someone bring the order to my table? (FWIW, some McDonalds now do this, yet nobody would ever tip at McDonalds.) What about if they come around and fill my water? What if I order at a counter but they still bus my table? Moreover, in many places (coffee shops, ice cream shops) there is no wait service at all, the person at the counter merely draws a coffee or scoops some ice cream, yet tips are apparently still expected. Am I really supposed to tip 15% just for someone to scoop me an ice cream cone? Which leads me to another question that has bothered me since way back in the day: Why are bartenders tipped so richly simply for pouring a drink? 15-20% has long been standard for full-service. For lesser service I don't understand why anybody would be expected to tip the same amount. Am I missing something? I gather the younger generation might not think of things in these terms, but why not?

refurb 8y ago
When i’m doing all the work and someone at the counter just hands me food, they get a token $1 tip. If everything goes well.
ryandrake 8y ago
I’m surprised that you are 50+ and are saying 15-20% “has always” been the standard for sit down full service. I am 40+ and distinctly remember when it was 10%. Then little by little it seemed to morph into 10-15%, then 10%ers were seen as cheap and it was 15%. Then some restaurants would “suggest” 15-18%. Now, just yesterday I was in a restaurant where they pre-calculated 18%, 19%, and 20%. It’s been inflating all my life, for no logical, discernible reason.
- baby 8y ago
  Simpler: never tip a percentage. Tip a fixed amount. It makes no sense to me to pay more because I ordered a more expensive dish.
  - Retra 8y ago
    It's not really about how expensive of a dish you order, but about how fancy the restaurant is and how many people you bring with you.
    - baby 8y ago
      You’re tipping the waiter so that he can make a decent wage, you’re not tipping the waiter so that he can make a fancy wage because his fancy restAurant doesn’t pay him/her. The number of people should also not influence your individual tip.
  - paulddraper 8y ago
    That's like saying a real estate agent should make $8k regardless of what property they sell. You could argue that, but only by ignoring practical matters of effort/level of service/value that attends a different price.
    - Latteland 8y ago
      The fact that real estate agents are paid by percentage is the most ridiculous thing ever. I'm done with that. Pay 60k commission sales fee on your million dollar house? Houses sell in one week or less where I live. There's literally no reason to pay that money.
- GauntletWizard 8y ago
  The logical-but-not-discernable reason is that the cost of food has gone down as a percentage of income, but the cost of labor has not, and restaurants have used guilt as a tactic to push more and more of those labor costs onto the consumer.
- 8y ago
cbhl 8y ago
Honestly, in SF, I'm confused that tips aren't like 50%-200%. I pay $3600/month in rent for a studio. So you need like $120/day post-tax in order to just make rent (and 2-3x that to qualify for the lease in the first place). So let's say you need $300/day in tips to live here. (That works out to about 109.5k/year -- a respectable entry-level tech salary, but that would be just above the poverty line in SF if you were trying to support a family of four on it.) Suppose that you have a ramen restaurant that's only open for dinner, seats 29, always has a line out the door, has a cycle time of half an hour, is open for 6 hours a night, and has three servers. Assuming 100% of seats are full (let's say you're the best ramen place in town), that means that each server will get tips from 116 customers a night on a $14 bowl of ramen. To make $300/day, you need an average $2.59 tip on the $14 bowl of ramen for the server alone (never mind any haircut for back staff/tip sharing/the owner takes some to cover fixed costs of the restaurant). $2.59/$14 works out to 18.5%. In a world where entire apartments in the Mission cost $500/month, sure, you can tip 10% on a meal. But given market rate rents in SF now, the math of a 10% tip just doesn't add up.
- Kalium 8y ago
  If 50%-200% becomes The New Normal and what was be a $8 sandwich becomes a $30 meal (taxes, tip, Healthy SF)... then I'm afraid I'm just not going to eat out at all. That'll help a struggling service industry worker make ends meet, right? ----- Realistically, odds are our hypothetical service industry worker isn't paying a market rate for a studio in the Mission. It's much more likely they're rooming with others in some fashion, and their monthly rent is at most half of $3600. And likely doing the traditional thing and under-reporting cash tip income by a non-trivial margin.
  - intended 8y ago
    The point is that the rational worker would have left anyway - anything below the lower level to fund existence means it’s already a losing job. You pay higher to have waiters in the first place. Essentially, the story of SF is the story of no high density housing.
- eanzenberg 8y ago
phil21 8y ago
> Which leads me to another question that has bothered me since way back in the day: Why are bartenders tipped so richly simply for pouring a drink? This and delivery from a shop you order often from are the only form of tipping that makes any sort of sense whatsoever to me (at least common forms of tipping). It's bribery so you get good service the next time. At a busy bar it's worth every dime to tip 100% that first drink and then a dollar or two after that. You will jump the 10 deep line at the bar no problem. Same goes for food delivery - get to know the couple drivers at the local Thai place and be known as a great tipper - you'll get service above and beyond. Any other tipping seems like it's utterly pointless as a consumer. Why tip after the fact - typically at 15-20% for merely acceptable service. Even if I'm a heavy tipper, the server has zero way to know it so I get just as good of service as anyone else.

by hsitz 8y ago

refurb 8y ago

When i’m doing all the work and someone at the counter just hands me food, they get a token $1 tip. If everything goes well.

ryandrake 8y ago

I’m surprised that you are 50+ and are saying 15-20% “has always” been the standard for sit down full service. I am 40+ and distinctly remember when it was 10%. Then little by little it seemed to morph into 10-15%, then 10%ers were seen as cheap and it was 15%. Then some restaurants would “suggest” 15-18%. Now, just yesterday I was in a restaurant where they pre-calculated 18%, 19%, and 20%. It’s been inflating all my life, for no logical, discernible reason.

baby 8y ago
Simpler: never tip a percentage. Tip a fixed amount. It makes no sense to me to pay more because I ordered a more expensive dish.
- Retra 8y ago
  It's not really about how expensive of a dish you order, but about how fancy the restaurant is and how many people you bring with you.
  - baby 8y ago
    You’re tipping the waiter so that he can make a decent wage, you’re not tipping the waiter so that he can make a fancy wage because his fancy restAurant doesn’t pay him/her. The number of people should also not influence your individual tip.
- paulddraper 8y ago
  That's like saying a real estate agent should make $8k regardless of what property they sell. You could argue that, but only by ignoring practical matters of effort/level of service/value that attends a different price.
  - Latteland 8y ago
    The fact that real estate agents are paid by percentage is the most ridiculous thing ever. I'm done with that. Pay 60k commission sales fee on your million dollar house? Houses sell in one week or less where I live. There's literally no reason to pay that money.
GauntletWizard 8y ago
The logical-but-not-discernable reason is that the cost of food has gone down as a percentage of income, but the cost of labor has not, and restaurants have used guilt as a tactic to push more and more of those labor costs onto the consumer.
8y ago

cbhl 8y ago

Honestly, in SF, I'm confused that tips aren't like 50%-200%. I pay $3600/month in rent for a studio. So you need like $120/day post-tax in order to just make rent (and 2-3x that to qualify for the lease in the first place). So let's say you need $300/day in tips to live here. (That works out to about 109.5k/year -- a respectable entry-level tech salary, but that would be just above the poverty line in SF if you were trying to support a family of four on it.) Suppose that you have a ramen restaurant that's only open for dinner, seats 29, always has a line out the door, has a cycle time of half an hour, is open for 6 hours a night, and has three servers. Assuming 100% of seats are full (let's say you're the best ramen place in town), that means that each server will get tips from 116 customers a night on a $14 bowl of ramen. To make $300/day, you need an average $2.59 tip on the $14 bowl of ramen for the server alone (never mind any haircut for back staff/tip sharing/the owner takes some to cover fixed costs of the restaurant). $2.59/$14 works out to 18.5%. In a world where entire apartments in the Mission cost $500/month, sure, you can tip 10% on a meal. But given market rate rents in SF now, the math of a 10% tip just doesn't add up.

Kalium 8y ago
If 50%-200% becomes The New Normal and what was be a $8 sandwich becomes a $30 meal (taxes, tip, Healthy SF)... then I'm afraid I'm just not going to eat out at all. That'll help a struggling service industry worker make ends meet, right? ----- Realistically, odds are our hypothetical service industry worker isn't paying a market rate for a studio in the Mission. It's much more likely they're rooming with others in some fashion, and their monthly rent is at most half of $3600. And likely doing the traditional thing and under-reporting cash tip income by a non-trivial margin.
- intended 8y ago
  The point is that the rational worker would have left anyway - anything below the lower level to fund existence means it’s already a losing job. You pay higher to have waiters in the first place. Essentially, the story of SF is the story of no high density housing.
eanzenberg 8y ago

phil21 8y ago

> Which leads me to another question that has bothered me since way back in the day: Why are bartenders tipped so richly simply for pouring a drink? This and delivery from a shop you order often from are the only form of tipping that makes any sort of sense whatsoever to me (at least common forms of tipping). It's bribery so you get good service the next time. At a busy bar it's worth every dime to tip 100% that first drink and then a dollar or two after that. You will jump the 10 deep line at the bar no problem. Same goes for food delivery - get to know the couple drivers at the local Thai place and be known as a great tipper - you'll get service above and beyond. Any other tipping seems like it's utterly pointless as a consumer. Why tip after the fact - typically at 15-20% for merely acceptable service. Even if I'm a heavy tipper, the server has zero way to know it so I get just as good of service as anyone else.