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Obama never showed any desire to curtail executive powers. In fact, he was championing exactly the opposite approach - that executive has the power to produce n

by smsm42 8y ago

Obama never showed any desire to curtail executive powers. In fact, he was championing exactly the opposite approach - that executive has the power to produce new regulatory legislation and ignore existing legislation they don't like, as soon as they perceive Congress does not do what they want it to do. No wonder Obama did nothing for civil forfeiture reform - that would be the exact opposite of his policy of infinite executive powers. His administration was not just ignoring forfeiture abuse - it was actively encouraging it, e.g. by means of infamous "equitable sharing" program, that allows the law enforcement to directly profit from seized property: https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-04-11/obamas-doj-sets-back-justice-with-asset-forfeiture-program https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-04-11/obamas-do... Saying forfeiture abuse proliferated "even under Obama" is like saying even under Rod Blagojevich corruption proliferated in Illinois. Not exactly a surprise.

docker_up 8y ago
You would think a professor in Constitutional Law would be eager to plug a whole that the police were taking advantage of, namely suing the money instead of suing the person. Yet all there was was deafening silence. So disappointing when people don't see things like this.
- nostrademons 8y ago
  Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy [1] presents a problem for anyone seeking to rectify the problem of an organization having too much power. In order to fix the problem, you first need power, which means that you need to create the institutional structures needed to secure that power, which means you have just exacerbated the problem. If you then actually follow-through with your original goal, nobody will listen to you, because you have (by definition) removed your power. More pithily, "Organizations whose top priority is not the continued existence of the organization are replaced by organizations whose top priority is." The only way to fix an organization that's outgrown its social purpose is for that organization to fail, outright, and then have its functions subsumed by other entities outside of the organization that can pick up the pieces. Sometimes the failure comes from internal dysfunction, sometimes it comes from external competition, but most of the time it's a mix of both, as internal dysfunction drives away competent insiders who then form the locus of external resistance. [1] https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html
- gamblor956 8y ago
  Obama eventually did plug the hole... It wasn't that big of an issue until after the recession (i.e., during his second term), so it simply wasn't on his radar while he dealt with more pressing issues. Moreover, civil forfeiture is allowed under federal law under very broad terms. It took quite a bit of time after it became an issue to draft a policy that would allow it to continue but end the excesses. Obama couldn't simply stop enforcing the law because the GOP and various state/local law enforcement agencies were prepared to sue in court to keep the gravy train going, and such a lawsuit would have kept the practice fully legal until long after his second term ended. Indeed, Congress could have ended civil forfeiture immediately but simply eliminating the law allowing for it. But GOP members of Congress blocked every such attempt.
  - jmalicki 8y ago
    "Obama eventually did plug the hole..." citation?
    - gamblor956 8y ago
      https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-prohibits-federal-agency-adoptions-assets-seized-state-and-local-law https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-prohibits-fe...
      - jessaustin 8y ago
        That seems like a portion of the hole, but probably not the whole hole?
        gamblor956 8y ago
        He did what he had the power to do. Getting rid of the whole hole would have required Congress to cooperate, which was a tall order when one party vowed that it was its mission to guarantee his failure.
      - smsm42 8y ago
        This - from 2015 - seems to pre-date my link from 2016 that says equitable sharing was reinstated. So he maybe temporarily plugged the hole but then took the plug out. Well, technically Lynch did, but we don't assume she'd do it over Obama's disagreement.

by smsm42 8y ago

docker_up 8y ago

You would think a professor in Constitutional Law would be eager to plug a whole that the police were taking advantage of, namely suing the money instead of suing the person. Yet all there was was deafening silence. So disappointing when people don't see things like this.

nostrademons 8y ago
Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy [1] presents a problem for anyone seeking to rectify the problem of an organization having too much power. In order to fix the problem, you first need power, which means that you need to create the institutional structures needed to secure that power, which means you have just exacerbated the problem. If you then actually follow-through with your original goal, nobody will listen to you, because you have (by definition) removed your power. More pithily, "Organizations whose top priority is not the continued existence of the organization are replaced by organizations whose top priority is." The only way to fix an organization that's outgrown its social purpose is for that organization to fail, outright, and then have its functions subsumed by other entities outside of the organization that can pick up the pieces. Sometimes the failure comes from internal dysfunction, sometimes it comes from external competition, but most of the time it's a mix of both, as internal dysfunction drives away competent insiders who then form the locus of external resistance. [1] https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html
gamblor956 8y ago
Obama eventually did plug the hole... It wasn't that big of an issue until after the recession (i.e., during his second term), so it simply wasn't on his radar while he dealt with more pressing issues. Moreover, civil forfeiture is allowed under federal law under very broad terms. It took quite a bit of time after it became an issue to draft a policy that would allow it to continue but end the excesses. Obama couldn't simply stop enforcing the law because the GOP and various state/local law enforcement agencies were prepared to sue in court to keep the gravy train going, and such a lawsuit would have kept the practice fully legal until long after his second term ended. Indeed, Congress could have ended civil forfeiture immediately but simply eliminating the law allowing for it. But GOP members of Congress blocked every such attempt.
- jmalicki 8y ago
  "Obama eventually did plug the hole..." citation?
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-prohibits-federal-agency-adoptions-assets-seized-state-and-local-law https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-prohibits-fe...
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      That seems like a portion of the hole, but probably not the whole hole?
      - gamblor956 8y ago
        He did what he had the power to do. Getting rid of the whole hole would have required Congress to cooperate, which was a tall order when one party vowed that it was its mission to guarantee his failure.
    - smsm42 8y ago
      This - from 2015 - seems to pre-date my link from 2016 that says equitable sharing was reinstated. So he maybe temporarily plugged the hole but then took the plug out. Well, technically Lynch did, but we don't assume she'd do it over Obama's disagreement.