5 ms·

This is not a substantive comment to make but calculating a tip is very easy. 15 percent of course is that standard amount. That is 10 percent plus 5 percent. F

by 67_45 8y ago

This is not a substantive comment to make but calculating a tip is very easy. 15 percent of course is that standard amount. That is 10 percent plus 5 percent. Finding ten percent is as easy as moving the decimal over one place. If the bill is 15.69 ten percent of that is one dollar and 56 cents. Call it 1.50. we know that five percent is half of ten, so just divide that number in half and add it. So half of 1.50 is .75 and 1.50 plus .75 is 2.25. it's very easy.

mjevans 8y ago
Part of the problem here is the 'tradition' of tips being a portion of the staff's wage. I'd prefer to see the 'tip' build in to the prices, workers paid a living wage, and any tip being purely an optional thing for great service.
- refurb 8y ago
  I think if you asked a lot of server’s they prefer the below-minimum wage based plus tips to a “living wage”. I know plenty of servers who pull in an equivalent hourly wage of $30 on a good night. They’d get screwed if tips went away and they were paid a living wage of $20 per hour.
  - mjevans 8y ago
    There are also the performers that do very well, compared to the vast swaths of starving artist types. If there is a minimum wage, no field should have an exception for it; that includes the labor working at places that aren't having a busy night with expensive meals. This is also about benefiting the customers; simple transparent pricing. No variable things added later. I also want /taxes/ to be included in the advertised price (at least on the local menus; national / widely targeted ads should include large text disclaimers)
    - cglace 8y ago
      They get paid minimum wage if their wage + tips do not equal minimum wage.
      - mjevans 8y ago
        My customer facing time was in a different industry, HOWEVER, that is not what I heard. The jist was that the /minimum/ wage was what the worker was required to take home, tips inclusive, and that if they couldn't clear that bar (the restaurant had to pay them more) they were retrained and/or otherwise moved around until they either could or quit on their own.
        cglace 8y ago
        Sure, they may be fired or moved around. However it's the law that they must make at least minimum wage for the hours worked. https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    And there are plenty of servers who get absolutely fucked by this system. They don't make nearly that amount in tips, and despite the law saying otherwise, most restaurants won't make up the difference. Wage theft is very common in that industry.
    - FireBeyond 8y ago
      And there are many who make far above the IRS assumed wages for cash/tip based incomes who definitely do not declare that.
  - patient_zero 8y ago
    subjective experience here. i was once a server, and I'd have greatly preferred a living wage plus token tips. the worst part being the loophole around minimum wage is that it incentivizes the widespread practice of tip pooling by restaurant owners. nowadays when you tip your waiter you're also tipping the busser, foodrunner, hostess (and with the recent law change allowing it, the line cook). it is too easily used as a tool to skirt wage laws by making every employee a tipped one.
Retric 8y ago
Except you did not actually calculate 15% which would be 2.35.
- 67_45 8y ago
  That was intentional when I rounded off 6 cents.
  - Retric 8y ago
    You mean 10 cents. A little more than 6 * 1.5
hsitz 8y ago
Maybe it's because I'm in the 50+ age category, but I think tips are confusing for a different reason. Yes, of course, it's trivial to calculate a percentage of an amount. The confusion is in deciding what percentage to give. 15% - 20% is standard, and always has been, for a full service, sit down restaurant. The tip makes some sense, based on the service given to you, some level of tip being roughly commensurate with the amount of service. But what percentage am I supposed to tip in a restaurant where I order at a counter, bus my own table, and merely have someone bring the order to my table? (FWIW, some McDonalds now do this, yet nobody would ever tip at McDonalds.) What about if they come around and fill my water? What if I order at a counter but they still bus my table? Moreover, in many places (coffee shops, ice cream shops) there is no wait service at all, the person at the counter merely draws a coffee or scoops some ice cream, yet tips are apparently still expected. Am I really supposed to tip 15% just for someone to scoop me an ice cream cone? Which leads me to another question that has bothered me since way back in the day: Why are bartenders tipped so richly simply for pouring a drink? 15-20% has long been standard for full-service. For lesser service I don't understand why anybody would be expected to tip the same amount. Am I missing something? I gather the younger generation might not think of things in these terms, but why not?
- refurb 8y ago
  When i’m doing all the work and someone at the counter just hands me food, they get a token $1 tip. If everything goes well.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  I’m surprised that you are 50+ and are saying 15-20% “has always” been the standard for sit down full service. I am 40+ and distinctly remember when it was 10%. Then little by little it seemed to morph into 10-15%, then 10%ers were seen as cheap and it was 15%. Then some restaurants would “suggest” 15-18%. Now, just yesterday I was in a restaurant where they pre-calculated 18%, 19%, and 20%. It’s been inflating all my life, for no logical, discernible reason.
  - baby 8y ago
    Simpler: never tip a percentage. Tip a fixed amount. It makes no sense to me to pay more because I ordered a more expensive dish.
austenallred 8y ago
...your math is wrong, so maybe it's not that easy after all
- 67_45 8y ago
  How? My math is wrong or you disagree with rounding off 6 cents? You infuriate me. Your vague dismissal of my comment adds nothing to anything and it is wrong. The steps I outlined are totally mathematically sound. How could you possibly read that and say "the math is wrong?" How? Do you say the math is wrong to anyone who rounds numbers? You have caused me to become insane How is this flagged? Can a mod please remove this flag?
cpeterso 8y ago
I approximate a 20% tip by rounding up the (post-tax) total to the next $5 increment and then dividing by 5, e.g. $123.45 bill -> $25 tip. Alternately, in cities with ~8-10% sales tax, you can double the sales tax and round up.
- jimmaswell 8y ago
  Why all this work? Just multiply by two and move the decimal to the left. 54 -> 108 -> 10.8. 37 -> 74 -> 7.4.
  - cpeterso 8y ago
    Everyone's brain works differently. :) I find division towards smaller numbers easier than multiplication towards larger numbers.
biztos 8y ago
15 percent is most definitely not the standard amount in San Francisco, unless you want some stink-eye with your dessert. In fact I don't think there's anywhere in California where 15 percent is considered normal anymore. Where I'm from (small town) nobody will be offended if you tip 15%, because you're more likely to be poor than cheap. But even there, 15% is undertipping in 2018. The math is the smallest part of the tipping problem, IMO.
hakcermani 8y ago
Personally for me easier is looking at the halfway point between 10% and 20%. So for 15.69 it would approximately be between 1.5 and 3.1 (1.5 + 1.6/2) = 2.3

by 67_45 8y ago

mjevans 8y ago

Part of the problem here is the 'tradition' of tips being a portion of the staff's wage. I'd prefer to see the 'tip' build in to the prices, workers paid a living wage, and any tip being purely an optional thing for great service.

refurb 8y ago
I think if you asked a lot of server’s they prefer the below-minimum wage based plus tips to a “living wage”. I know plenty of servers who pull in an equivalent hourly wage of $30 on a good night. They’d get screwed if tips went away and they were paid a living wage of $20 per hour.
- mjevans 8y ago
  There are also the performers that do very well, compared to the vast swaths of starving artist types. If there is a minimum wage, no field should have an exception for it; that includes the labor working at places that aren't having a busy night with expensive meals. This is also about benefiting the customers; simple transparent pricing. No variable things added later. I also want /taxes/ to be included in the advertised price (at least on the local menus; national / widely targeted ads should include large text disclaimers)
  - cglace 8y ago
    They get paid minimum wage if their wage + tips do not equal minimum wage.
    - mjevans 8y ago
      My customer facing time was in a different industry, HOWEVER, that is not what I heard. The jist was that the /minimum/ wage was what the worker was required to take home, tips inclusive, and that if they couldn't clear that bar (the restaurant had to pay them more) they were retrained and/or otherwise moved around until they either could or quit on their own.
      - cglace 8y ago
        Sure, they may be fired or moved around. However it's the law that they must make at least minimum wage for the hours worked. https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  And there are plenty of servers who get absolutely fucked by this system. They don't make nearly that amount in tips, and despite the law saying otherwise, most restaurants won't make up the difference. Wage theft is very common in that industry.
  - FireBeyond 8y ago
    And there are many who make far above the IRS assumed wages for cash/tip based incomes who definitely do not declare that.
- patient_zero 8y ago
  subjective experience here. i was once a server, and I'd have greatly preferred a living wage plus token tips. the worst part being the loophole around minimum wage is that it incentivizes the widespread practice of tip pooling by restaurant owners. nowadays when you tip your waiter you're also tipping the busser, foodrunner, hostess (and with the recent law change allowing it, the line cook). it is too easily used as a tool to skirt wage laws by making every employee a tipped one.

Retric 8y ago

Except you did not actually calculate 15% which would be 2.35.

67_45 8y ago
That was intentional when I rounded off 6 cents.
- Retric 8y ago
  You mean 10 cents. A little more than 6 * 1.5

hsitz 8y ago

Maybe it's because I'm in the 50+ age category, but I think tips are confusing for a different reason. Yes, of course, it's trivial to calculate a percentage of an amount. The confusion is in deciding what percentage to give. 15% - 20% is standard, and always has been, for a full service, sit down restaurant. The tip makes some sense, based on the service given to you, some level of tip being roughly commensurate with the amount of service. But what percentage am I supposed to tip in a restaurant where I order at a counter, bus my own table, and merely have someone bring the order to my table? (FWIW, some McDonalds now do this, yet nobody would ever tip at McDonalds.) What about if they come around and fill my water? What if I order at a counter but they still bus my table? Moreover, in many places (coffee shops, ice cream shops) there is no wait service at all, the person at the counter merely draws a coffee or scoops some ice cream, yet tips are apparently still expected. Am I really supposed to tip 15% just for someone to scoop me an ice cream cone? Which leads me to another question that has bothered me since way back in the day: Why are bartenders tipped so richly simply for pouring a drink? 15-20% has long been standard for full-service. For lesser service I don't understand why anybody would be expected to tip the same amount. Am I missing something? I gather the younger generation might not think of things in these terms, but why not?

refurb 8y ago
When i’m doing all the work and someone at the counter just hands me food, they get a token $1 tip. If everything goes well.
ryandrake 8y ago
I’m surprised that you are 50+ and are saying 15-20% “has always” been the standard for sit down full service. I am 40+ and distinctly remember when it was 10%. Then little by little it seemed to morph into 10-15%, then 10%ers were seen as cheap and it was 15%. Then some restaurants would “suggest” 15-18%. Now, just yesterday I was in a restaurant where they pre-calculated 18%, 19%, and 20%. It’s been inflating all my life, for no logical, discernible reason.
- baby 8y ago
  Simpler: never tip a percentage. Tip a fixed amount. It makes no sense to me to pay more because I ordered a more expensive dish.

austenallred 8y ago

...your math is wrong, so maybe it's not that easy after all

67_45 8y ago
How? My math is wrong or you disagree with rounding off 6 cents? You infuriate me. Your vague dismissal of my comment adds nothing to anything and it is wrong. The steps I outlined are totally mathematically sound. How could you possibly read that and say "the math is wrong?" How? Do you say the math is wrong to anyone who rounds numbers? You have caused me to become insane How is this flagged? Can a mod please remove this flag?

cpeterso 8y ago

I approximate a 20% tip by rounding up the (post-tax) total to the next $5 increment and then dividing by 5, e.g. $123.45 bill -> $25 tip. Alternately, in cities with ~8-10% sales tax, you can double the sales tax and round up.

jimmaswell 8y ago
Why all this work? Just multiply by two and move the decimal to the left. 54 -> 108 -> 10.8. 37 -> 74 -> 7.4.
- cpeterso 8y ago
  Everyone's brain works differently. :) I find division towards smaller numbers easier than multiplication towards larger numbers.

biztos 8y ago

15 percent is most definitely not the standard amount in San Francisco, unless you want some stink-eye with your dessert. In fact I don't think there's anywhere in California where 15 percent is considered normal anymore. Where I'm from (small town) nobody will be offended if you tip 15%, because you're more likely to be poor than cheap. But even there, 15% is undertipping in 2018. The math is the smallest part of the tipping problem, IMO.

hakcermani 8y ago

Personally for me easier is looking at the halfway point between 10% and 20%. So for 15.69 it would approximately be between 1.5 and 3.1 (1.5 + 1.6/2) = 2.3