4 ms·

PIPs, at least from what I’ve seen in 12 years at DoE, are a way for managers to retaliate against employees without raising the ire of the (completely useless)

by erric 8y ago

PIPs, at least from what I’ve seen in 12 years at DoE, are a way for managers to retaliate against employees without raising the ire of the (completely useless) union.

extra88 8y ago
A PIP is an explicit statement of the problems with an employee's current performance and what they need to improve to not be fired. A manager's complaints may be dubious but no more so than they would be if they were outright allowed to fire the person. I've never heard of a PIP actually succeeding (an employee improving to the satisfaction of their manager) so it delays the inevitable, perhaps allowing the employee to quit and find another job before their fired. It's definitely meant to avoid a wrongful dismissal lawsuit but I think that almost never works; either the employee is going to sue or they're not, "being given a chance to improve" isn't going to change that.
- cthalupa 8y ago
  I've seen employees succeed at PIPs. If there are explicit goals or metrics to be measured, which I have seen in many cases, it's pretty clear what needs to be done to clear it. If they don't meet those goals, and they're attainable (e.g. other people in the same role are performing that well on average), it's a pretty clear defense for a lawsuit.
  - workinthehead 8y ago
    I was offered a PIP once. It was purportedly due to poor performance, but it was clear that I was being gotten rid of for other, non performance-related reasons. The actual goal I was meant to meet was unachievable because I was simultaneously throttled in the amount of work I was allowed to take on at once. The whole place was a clown show that I was unhappy at anyway, so while I entertained the idea of taking them to court, when I realized the PIP is basically an elaborate attempt to defend against wrongful termination cases I ultimately just found a much better job.
duxup 8y ago
I could see how that might work. Most PIPs that I've seen were pretty fair as they laid out pretty specific benchmarks. But I could see it working the other way if someone wanted it to.

by erric 8y ago

PIPs, at least from what I’ve seen in 12 years at DoE, are a way for managers to retaliate against employees without raising the ire of the (completely useless) union.

extra88 8y ago

A PIP is an explicit statement of the problems with an employee's current performance and what they need to improve to not be fired. A manager's complaints may be dubious but no more so than they would be if they were outright allowed to fire the person. I've never heard of a PIP actually succeeding (an employee improving to the satisfaction of their manager) so it delays the inevitable, perhaps allowing the employee to quit and find another job before their fired. It's definitely meant to avoid a wrongful dismissal lawsuit but I think that almost never works; either the employee is going to sue or they're not, "being given a chance to improve" isn't going to change that.

cthalupa 8y ago
I've seen employees succeed at PIPs. If there are explicit goals or metrics to be measured, which I have seen in many cases, it's pretty clear what needs to be done to clear it. If they don't meet those goals, and they're attainable (e.g. other people in the same role are performing that well on average), it's a pretty clear defense for a lawsuit.
- workinthehead 8y ago
  I was offered a PIP once. It was purportedly due to poor performance, but it was clear that I was being gotten rid of for other, non performance-related reasons. The actual goal I was meant to meet was unachievable because I was simultaneously throttled in the amount of work I was allowed to take on at once. The whole place was a clown show that I was unhappy at anyway, so while I entertained the idea of taking them to court, when I realized the PIP is basically an elaborate attempt to defend against wrongful termination cases I ultimately just found a much better job.

duxup 8y ago

I could see how that might work. Most PIPs that I've seen were pretty fair as they laid out pretty specific benchmarks. But I could see it working the other way if someone wanted it to.