4 ms·

Why aren't all keyboards ortholinear? Designing keyboards with staggered keys is absurd.

by miguelrochefort 8y ago

pjc50 8y ago
Staggered is easier to type on, especially with small keyboards. Prevents you having to angle your wrists too much.
- miguelrochefort 8y ago
  This is not true. What makes you think that?
  - naikrovek 8y ago
    Just picture how your wrists need to hold your hands so that fingers extend straight up from the home row. Unless your rib cage is infinitely thin, or your arms infinitely long, your arms are going to come together on that keyboard at angles that diverge strongly from the line between your solarplexus and the center of your monitor(s). Your wrists have to twist your hands enough to make your fingers point parallel to that imaginary line. There is AT LEAST one very good reason that ortholinear keyboards have not taken off, and I've just described it.
    - dkersten 8y ago
      I use a Kinesis Advantage2, which has a split ortholinear keyboard and it is by far the most comfortable keyboard I’ve ever typed on. After switching, I really never want to go back to a staggared keyboard ever again. None of what you describe is the case for me (although, its worth adding that the Advantage keyboards are split layout ergonomic keyboards).
      - naikrovek 8y ago
        This is the keyboard alignment I was talking about: https://i.imgur.com/IiAGGULh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IiAGGULh.jpg I don't see how your keyboard could legitimately use the word "linear" in it's description in any way. All I see are curved key "cups" and nothing linear at all.
        dkersten 8y ago
        The vertical alignment is in a straight line, but yes absolutely, the curvature of the keys likely has a role to play to make it as comfortable as it is. But if you look at the keys from the top, they are in a straight grid like the keyboard you linked.
    - miguelrochefort 8y ago
      I use a Kinesis Advantage. The keyboards is split into two angled ortholinear sections. It's the best layout I've ever used. Look at your staggered keyboard. The left and right sections are not even symmetrical. Put your fingers on the home row, then naturally extend them to the next row. You will see that they're all over the place. Staggered keys are a relic from typewriters, not an ergonomic design choice.
      - naikrovek 8y ago
        I was referring to this layout: https://i.imgur.com/IiAGGULh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IiAGGULh.jpg That this keyboard and a kinesis can both call themselves "ortholinear" is just one of the many indicators of complete and total insanity amongst the mechanical keyboard community. There is nothing linear about a kinesis advantage.
    - pvinis 8y ago
      Ortholinear goes very very well with split keyboards. that way you can put the left and right parts on an angle that your fingers follow. After using the ergodox and iris, I'm not going back to a "normal" keyboard ever again.
- IronBacon 8y ago
  Horizontal or vertical staggers? In my personal opinion, default keyboards (horizontally staggered) are a pain to use, I loathe them and have my ideas why they still adopt that century old layout even if they don't have the mechanical constraint of the typewriters (mostly inertia). I have never tried the Kinesis Advantage but I have an Ergodox (that I don't use) and a TECK that's my daily driver; I find the vertical stagger layout (keys aligned on columns) the most natural for the hands (switched to Colemak 2~3 years ago, but that is another can of worms ^__^;). Ortholinear/matrix style, even if never tried I suspect I wouldn't like it, I'm thinking about the Plank models I've seen that use the Signature Plastic DSA keycaps. I have them on my Ergodox, the flat look is fabulous but I find it uncomfortable (the plan is to sell it and invest in a Advantage 2)...
jhanschoo 8y ago
As to why keyboards are staggered in the first place, it is because a staggered layout allowed typewriters to have straight levers to the type guide (where they hammer down onto the paper). By having a straight vertical slice for each key, this meant that keys would not get easily jammed. Obviously electronic keyboards do not require this same constraint, but tradition is difficult to change.

Why aren't all keyboards ortholinear? Designing keyboards with staggered keys is absurd.

pjc50 8y ago

Staggered is easier to type on, especially with small keyboards. Prevents you having to angle your wrists too much.

miguelrochefort 8y ago
This is not true. What makes you think that?
- naikrovek 8y ago
  Just picture how your wrists need to hold your hands so that fingers extend straight up from the home row. Unless your rib cage is infinitely thin, or your arms infinitely long, your arms are going to come together on that keyboard at angles that diverge strongly from the line between your solarplexus and the center of your monitor(s). Your wrists have to twist your hands enough to make your fingers point parallel to that imaginary line. There is AT LEAST one very good reason that ortholinear keyboards have not taken off, and I've just described it.
  - dkersten 8y ago
    I use a Kinesis Advantage2, which has a split ortholinear keyboard and it is by far the most comfortable keyboard I’ve ever typed on. After switching, I really never want to go back to a staggared keyboard ever again. None of what you describe is the case for me (although, its worth adding that the Advantage keyboards are split layout ergonomic keyboards).
    - naikrovek 8y ago
      This is the keyboard alignment I was talking about: https://i.imgur.com/IiAGGULh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IiAGGULh.jpg I don't see how your keyboard could legitimately use the word "linear" in it's description in any way. All I see are curved key "cups" and nothing linear at all.
      - dkersten 8y ago
        The vertical alignment is in a straight line, but yes absolutely, the curvature of the keys likely has a role to play to make it as comfortable as it is. But if you look at the keys from the top, they are in a straight grid like the keyboard you linked.
  - miguelrochefort 8y ago
    I use a Kinesis Advantage. The keyboards is split into two angled ortholinear sections. It's the best layout I've ever used. Look at your staggered keyboard. The left and right sections are not even symmetrical. Put your fingers on the home row, then naturally extend them to the next row. You will see that they're all over the place. Staggered keys are a relic from typewriters, not an ergonomic design choice.
    - naikrovek 8y ago
      I was referring to this layout: https://i.imgur.com/IiAGGULh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IiAGGULh.jpg That this keyboard and a kinesis can both call themselves "ortholinear" is just one of the many indicators of complete and total insanity amongst the mechanical keyboard community. There is nothing linear about a kinesis advantage.
  - pvinis 8y ago
    Ortholinear goes very very well with split keyboards. that way you can put the left and right parts on an angle that your fingers follow. After using the ergodox and iris, I'm not going back to a "normal" keyboard ever again.
IronBacon 8y ago
Horizontal or vertical staggers? In my personal opinion, default keyboards (horizontally staggered) are a pain to use, I loathe them and have my ideas why they still adopt that century old layout even if they don't have the mechanical constraint of the typewriters (mostly inertia). I have never tried the Kinesis Advantage but I have an Ergodox (that I don't use) and a TECK that's my daily driver; I find the vertical stagger layout (keys aligned on columns) the most natural for the hands (switched to Colemak 2~3 years ago, but that is another can of worms ^__^;). Ortholinear/matrix style, even if never tried I suspect I wouldn't like it, I'm thinking about the Plank models I've seen that use the Signature Plastic DSA keycaps. I have them on my Ergodox, the flat look is fabulous but I find it uncomfortable (the plan is to sell it and invest in a Advantage 2)...

jhanschoo 8y ago

As to why keyboards are staggered in the first place, it is because a staggered layout allowed typewriters to have straight levers to the type guide (where they hammer down onto the paper). By having a straight vertical slice for each key, this meant that keys would not get easily jammed. Obviously electronic keyboards do not require this same constraint, but tradition is difficult to change.