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Agreed. If the purpose of all this is to create a more even playing field then there really shouldn’t be much rational opposition. If tarrifs were placed specif

Agreed. If the purpose of all this is to create a more even playing field then there really shouldn’t be much rational opposition. If tarrifs were placed specifically for artificially protecting non national security related goods then that would be an economic disaster. But if tarrifs are implemented to correct unfair trade agreements, then that isn’t economically unsound policy. How else do you rectify decades of wrong doing. IP theft, china can invest in whatever here, but we have artificial caps there. Significant tarrifs and regulatory issues there, far fewer here. Americans can’t buy property there, China purchases $150B a year in residential property here, pricing out many in the most sought after real estate markets. Forcing technology transfer to a totalitarian borderline authoritarian government and not doing anything would be pathetic. What other tools do we have that are more palatable than tarrifs? War? Sanctions? Stop trading altogether? How else are you supposed to fix something, if the other side never wants to fix it?

pavlov 8y ago
> Americans can’t buy property there, China purchases $150B a year in residential property here Would you even want to want to buy property in what you describe as an authoritarian, borderline totalitarian country? The Chinese don't want their property to be subject to whims of party officials, so they invest elsewhere. This is a net positive for Americans (increasing real estate prices mean increasing total wealth), and also a creeping long-term negative for China which they can't easily fix without relinquishing control. Rather than trying to force the issue, USA should continue to take the high road and let the Communist Party slowly boil. It may take a long time, but the Chinese will eventually want their political freedom because they don't have real economic freedom without it.
- swsieber 8y ago
  High real estate prices is a net win for a few Americans.
- aniro 8y ago
  >>This is a net positive for Americans (increasing real estate prices mean increasing total wealth). Uh, not so much. Being priced out of home ownership means a smaller and smaller portion of Americans would (do) benefit from this increased "total wealth".
  - pavlov 8y ago
    Uneven wealth distribution is a problem that Americans could fix by themselves if they wanted to. The solution is not to drive foreign investment elsewhere.
    - lord_ring_111 8y ago
      It is a solution. Buying real-estate is not as economically productive as say creating a factory. We created factories in china, imported their goods, gave them $$$, with which they are slowly buying america. Remember every time u import, you are selling your country. If its not balanced with exports, you are eventually handing off the country. America was long depending on fooling other countriesby devaluing dollars, but tgat does not work with china.
- propman 8y ago
  Do I want to invest in the 2nd fastest growing economy in the world? One which has artificial controls to make sure my investment is stable, yes I do. Investment in non residential areas are heavily blocked with rules such as technology transfer, tarrifs, and management needing to be Chinese but is more appealing. Nonetheless, residential real estate in tier 1 Chinese cities is one of the best investments there is. It’s like investing in Manhattan, Paris, London, SF 30 years ago. You know as wealth is created your property value will exponentially grow. So the answer is a resounding yes. It’s a net positive if it was a 2 way street. Currently, I’m competing with the entire world to purchase a house in the Valley. Chinese investment is in SV, LA, NYC, Vancouver, Toronto, NZ, Sydney and Melbourne. All areas where locals are priced out, income inequality is rampant, and only those who sell are realizing actual wealth. Salaries in those areas are higher solely for housing prices. That means our companies losing out on billions due to foreign unfair investment. Chinese aren’t moving to these areas in many cases. They are just investing and parking their money, some of it through illicit means. In Canada, the majority of Chinese RE investment is through the drug trade. They are legitimizing this. In NZ xenophobia has increased significantly so much that they are planning to block all foreign investments period. That doesn’t seem to be a net positive to me. Australia has jacked up foreign investment taxes twice and Canada 3 times in just 2 years. The latter are also turning more xenophobic and honestly I don’t blame them.
phobosdeimos 8y ago
Its called the WTO and it has been around for a while. And this won't fix anything. The rest of the world will happily keep doing business with China. The US is just salty. Instead of adapting to new circumstances they cling to US hegemony. Orange man yelling at clouds.
- o0-0o 8y ago
  Besides being short on sources and facts and being overly emotional I wonder what you meN by, Orange man... Is that some kind of racist statement about POTUS?
  - bg4 8y ago
    It's referring to his fake skin tanning.
- propman 8y ago
  https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-swallowed-the-wto-1509551308 https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-swallowed-the-wto-150... China has completely swallowed the WTO. Letting it in was one of the biggest mistakes in history, it has completely gamed the system. The goodwill and ethics have been swamped. China makes frivolous litigation to slow down the entire process and has spent years and billions learning how to completely game it. Even when the WTO rules against China, it is many years after the fact and the competition is already dead and China has taken over the market share.
jaredklewis 8y ago
Just because we can wage a trade war doesn’t mean we can win it. The fact that we have an unfair trade agreement with China now, in no way means that a trade war will necessarily be to our benefit. I imagine it’s going to damage our economy quite a bit, and do the same for China. You mention that inaction would be “pathetic” which may be the case. And if we want to do something about it, we can, but it doesn’t mean the US or the world will better off for doing so. Just look at Iraq. For sure, there was a horrible dictator there who committed genocide and other terrible things. So the US acted. Was it a success? Was it the best possible use of those trillions of dollars? Who knows, but I suspect not. Just because there is a wrong in the world doesn’t mean that we definitely have the means to fix it.

pavlov 8y ago

> Americans can’t buy property there, China purchases $150B a year in residential property here Would you even want to want to buy property in what you describe as an authoritarian, borderline totalitarian country? The Chinese don't want their property to be subject to whims of party officials, so they invest elsewhere. This is a net positive for Americans (increasing real estate prices mean increasing total wealth), and also a creeping long-term negative for China which they can't easily fix without relinquishing control. Rather than trying to force the issue, USA should continue to take the high road and let the Communist Party slowly boil. It may take a long time, but the Chinese will eventually want their political freedom because they don't have real economic freedom without it.

swsieber 8y ago
High real estate prices is a net win for a few Americans.
aniro 8y ago
>>This is a net positive for Americans (increasing real estate prices mean increasing total wealth). Uh, not so much. Being priced out of home ownership means a smaller and smaller portion of Americans would (do) benefit from this increased "total wealth".
- pavlov 8y ago
  Uneven wealth distribution is a problem that Americans could fix by themselves if they wanted to. The solution is not to drive foreign investment elsewhere.
  - lord_ring_111 8y ago
    It is a solution. Buying real-estate is not as economically productive as say creating a factory. We created factories in china, imported their goods, gave them $$$, with which they are slowly buying america. Remember every time u import, you are selling your country. If its not balanced with exports, you are eventually handing off the country. America was long depending on fooling other countriesby devaluing dollars, but tgat does not work with china.
propman 8y ago
Do I want to invest in the 2nd fastest growing economy in the world? One which has artificial controls to make sure my investment is stable, yes I do. Investment in non residential areas are heavily blocked with rules such as technology transfer, tarrifs, and management needing to be Chinese but is more appealing. Nonetheless, residential real estate in tier 1 Chinese cities is one of the best investments there is. It’s like investing in Manhattan, Paris, London, SF 30 years ago. You know as wealth is created your property value will exponentially grow. So the answer is a resounding yes. It’s a net positive if it was a 2 way street. Currently, I’m competing with the entire world to purchase a house in the Valley. Chinese investment is in SV, LA, NYC, Vancouver, Toronto, NZ, Sydney and Melbourne. All areas where locals are priced out, income inequality is rampant, and only those who sell are realizing actual wealth. Salaries in those areas are higher solely for housing prices. That means our companies losing out on billions due to foreign unfair investment. Chinese aren’t moving to these areas in many cases. They are just investing and parking their money, some of it through illicit means. In Canada, the majority of Chinese RE investment is through the drug trade. They are legitimizing this. In NZ xenophobia has increased significantly so much that they are planning to block all foreign investments period. That doesn’t seem to be a net positive to me. Australia has jacked up foreign investment taxes twice and Canada 3 times in just 2 years. The latter are also turning more xenophobic and honestly I don’t blame them.

phobosdeimos 8y ago

Its called the WTO and it has been around for a while. And this won't fix anything. The rest of the world will happily keep doing business with China. The US is just salty. Instead of adapting to new circumstances they cling to US hegemony. Orange man yelling at clouds.

o0-0o 8y ago
Besides being short on sources and facts and being overly emotional I wonder what you meN by, Orange man... Is that some kind of racist statement about POTUS?
- bg4 8y ago
  It's referring to his fake skin tanning.
propman 8y ago
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-swallowed-the-wto-1509551308 https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-swallowed-the-wto-150... China has completely swallowed the WTO. Letting it in was one of the biggest mistakes in history, it has completely gamed the system. The goodwill and ethics have been swamped. China makes frivolous litigation to slow down the entire process and has spent years and billions learning how to completely game it. Even when the WTO rules against China, it is many years after the fact and the competition is already dead and China has taken over the market share.

jaredklewis 8y ago

Just because we can wage a trade war doesn’t mean we can win it. The fact that we have an unfair trade agreement with China now, in no way means that a trade war will necessarily be to our benefit. I imagine it’s going to damage our economy quite a bit, and do the same for China. You mention that inaction would be “pathetic” which may be the case. And if we want to do something about it, we can, but it doesn’t mean the US or the world will better off for doing so. Just look at Iraq. For sure, there was a horrible dictator there who committed genocide and other terrible things. So the US acted. Was it a success? Was it the best possible use of those trillions of dollars? Who knows, but I suspect not. Just because there is a wrong in the world doesn’t mean that we definitely have the means to fix it.