4 ms·

According to: https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/sp/sp_ne153.pdf https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/sp/sp_ne153.pdf it is not smaller. 12 mice per acre average. That's

According to: https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/sp/sp_ne153.pdf https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/sp/sp_ne153.pdf it is not smaller. 12 mice per acre average. That's a lot more animal lives being ruined per acre IMO - and that's just the mice. If you want to convince people of your cause, you need to be willing to be honest about the pros and cons instead of going for an emotional argument.

ianleeclark 8y ago
It's not an emotional argument, if a vegan diet requires 1/10th of the acreage, then it requires 12 dead mice as opposed to the 120 dead mice + _whatever animals you're eating_ of the meat-eating diet. A meat eating diet inherently requires more acreage due to thermodynamics. It works like this: 20 acres of grain feeds 10 cows which feeds 1 person for a year, therefore 240 dead mice and 10 dead cows. An omnivore's diet inherently requires more acreage, therefore more dead mice and all the cows, chicken, fish, &c. you're eating.
- hackerman12345 8y ago
  I think the mice can usually run out of a way of a cow slowly grazing along pasture.
  - ianleeclark 8y ago
    it's not just cows grazing on grass--78% of cows in the us are factory farmed, and 97% are grain fed which means they're force fed cheap grain to fatten them up for slaughter. Moreover, only 3% of cattle can be considered grass fed, and, for those cattle, we're deforesting the amazon rainforest--so probably more than your 12 mice. If you want to throw global warming on top of it, your lifestyle will contribute to the mass Exodus (and most likely death) of millions to billions from the global south. It's kinda ironic you said I'm arguing from emotion, but all it took for you to be complicit in rape, torture, and slaughter is a smiling cow on the side of a fucking cheese package.
    - hackerman12345 8y ago
      Wait until you read about how animals treat each other, and you'll pretty much think we are angels (obviously factory farms and what not are bad). And before you say "yea but I choose to not contribute to their suffering", well what does that matter? You're still standing by while innocent creatures have all those things done to them by other creatures. Aren't they entitled to not be tortured and slaughtered as well? Or does it just not matter if you're not the one doing it?

ianleeclark 8y ago

It's not an emotional argument, if a vegan diet requires 1/10th of the acreage, then it requires 12 dead mice as opposed to the 120 dead mice + _whatever animals you're eating_ of the meat-eating diet. A meat eating diet inherently requires more acreage due to thermodynamics. It works like this: 20 acres of grain feeds 10 cows which feeds 1 person for a year, therefore 240 dead mice and 10 dead cows. An omnivore's diet inherently requires more acreage, therefore more dead mice and all the cows, chicken, fish, &c. you're eating.

hackerman12345 8y ago
I think the mice can usually run out of a way of a cow slowly grazing along pasture.
- ianleeclark 8y ago
  it's not just cows grazing on grass--78% of cows in the us are factory farmed, and 97% are grain fed which means they're force fed cheap grain to fatten them up for slaughter. Moreover, only 3% of cattle can be considered grass fed, and, for those cattle, we're deforesting the amazon rainforest--so probably more than your 12 mice. If you want to throw global warming on top of it, your lifestyle will contribute to the mass Exodus (and most likely death) of millions to billions from the global south. It's kinda ironic you said I'm arguing from emotion, but all it took for you to be complicit in rape, torture, and slaughter is a smiling cow on the side of a fucking cheese package.
  - hackerman12345 8y ago
    Wait until you read about how animals treat each other, and you'll pretty much think we are angels (obviously factory farms and what not are bad). And before you say "yea but I choose to not contribute to their suffering", well what does that matter? You're still standing by while innocent creatures have all those things done to them by other creatures. Aren't they entitled to not be tortured and slaughtered as well? Or does it just not matter if you're not the one doing it?