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A great achievement even for a game which is relatively simplistic like a MOBA. Still waiting for AI to become competitive in Starcraft which i think is a much

A great achievement even for a game which is relatively simplistic like a MOBA. Still waiting for AI to become competitive in Starcraft which i think is a much greater challenge.

izzydata 8y ago
An impossible to beat Starcraft AI is already doable without all this AI training. Just by controlling every individual unit seperatly in impossible to counter maneuvers far beyond any human actions per minute. You could basically get an AI to win every single time with a handful of zerglings in a few minutes this way. You could train an AI for 1 billion years a day to play pong or you could hardcode it to never miss the ball.
- brianwawok 8y ago
  Are you sure? i.e. has this been proven on pro level SC players? I think a smart player could know the player was going Zerg, and wall in.. and make some decisions that make the micro of Zerg less useful.
  - izzydata 8y ago
    Mostly speculation and observations of many hours in Starcraft. I don't think anyone has really set out to create an AI where the only goal is to never lose. I can imagine a program that can take one unit and program it to always remain 1 pixel farther than the maximum distance any enemy can shoot it unless for some reason it knows with 100% certainty it will win an engagement. I'm not aware of any public api or hooks into controlling Starcraft or it would have probably been done by now. It would also be used for cheating so they can't make that anyway.
- cremp 8y ago
  I like your example of pong; because it illustrates how a simple problem of 'AI winning' can spiral out of control into a nightmare of work. On the other hand. Pong is simple with 1 rule. Starcraft, or in this case Dota, have multiple facets to win. Plus, most SC players just gg out of the game when they know they've lost. I'd think that is a more apt use for AI. Like chess, see out X moves; if it's a lost cause; call it, and get to the queue faster for another game.
fleetfox 8y ago
I've played both games extensively and imho calling dota simplistic is not fair.

A great achievement even for a game which is relatively simplistic like a MOBA. Still waiting for AI to become competitive in Starcraft which i think is a much greater challenge.

izzydata 8y ago

An impossible to beat Starcraft AI is already doable without all this AI training. Just by controlling every individual unit seperatly in impossible to counter maneuvers far beyond any human actions per minute. You could basically get an AI to win every single time with a handful of zerglings in a few minutes this way. You could train an AI for 1 billion years a day to play pong or you could hardcode it to never miss the ball.

brianwawok 8y ago
Are you sure? i.e. has this been proven on pro level SC players? I think a smart player could know the player was going Zerg, and wall in.. and make some decisions that make the micro of Zerg less useful.
- izzydata 8y ago
  Mostly speculation and observations of many hours in Starcraft. I don't think anyone has really set out to create an AI where the only goal is to never lose. I can imagine a program that can take one unit and program it to always remain 1 pixel farther than the maximum distance any enemy can shoot it unless for some reason it knows with 100% certainty it will win an engagement. I'm not aware of any public api or hooks into controlling Starcraft or it would have probably been done by now. It would also be used for cheating so they can't make that anyway.
cremp 8y ago
I like your example of pong; because it illustrates how a simple problem of 'AI winning' can spiral out of control into a nightmare of work. On the other hand. Pong is simple with 1 rule. Starcraft, or in this case Dota, have multiple facets to win. Plus, most SC players just gg out of the game when they know they've lost. I'd think that is a more apt use for AI. Like chess, see out X moves; if it's a lost cause; call it, and get to the queue faster for another game.

fleetfox 8y ago

I've played both games extensively and imho calling dota simplistic is not fair.