4 ms·

I wonder if gut flora has more to do with absorption of the medicine than anything else.

by cozzyd 8y ago

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Not just medicinal absorption, but even mental health directly. I have an educated hunch that we’re going to find a lot of answers in the coming years about how our treatment and abuse of our gut flora (the widespread use of broad spectrum antibiotics, Western/high sugar diets) is responsible for some chronic illnesses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5641835/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5641835/
vegardx 8y ago
Sure - there are plenty of things you can eat or drink to increase absorption and metabolism, one famous interaction is with grapefruit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit–drug_interactions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit–drug_interactions
- LinuxBender 8y ago
  Also garlic extract, curcumin and piperine (or bioperine), change how things are metabolized and processed in the liver. I take those and they amplify the effect of a medication I take, so I have to be extra careful with dosage.
  - vegardx 8y ago
    On the flip side you can often get by with lower dosages, which in some cases mean less side effects.
    - LinuxBender 8y ago
      I concur. The medication was in fact causing nasty side effects and I was able to cut the dosage in half. I may even be able to ween myself off it entirely once I find the right combination of natural alternatives.
- always_good 8y ago
  I took a dose of acid so large that I had to curl up under my bed sheet for the two hours of the peak. Once the peak left and I could again walk around and brave the sunlight, I realized I was ravenously hungry. I grabbed a grapefruit and began devouring it. More than halfway through the fruit's succulent sectors, I felt overwhelmed again as if the peak had returned and had to seek darkness for another twenty minutes. Most drug interactions are hard to detect. Do I notice if the amphetamine is hitting 15% harder or weaker than usual? Or if I'm focusing 15% better or worse? Not really. Feels arbitrary to try and measure it. But re-crossing acid's threshold immediately after exiting it was the hard evidence I needed to believe in what always sounded like highschool folktale.
symlock 8y ago
Most antibiotics & modern medicine kills gut flora. It seems gut flora have more to do with proper nutritional absorption preventing the need of drugs to begin with. Consider the termite's inability to digest wood when their gut flora is destroyed. After all, no one has an aspirin deficiency.
- cozzyd 8y ago
  Sure but I'm getting at a different connection. In this particular study, where both groups are presumably taking antipsychotics, the probiotics might increase the effectiveness of the medicine they are already taking.
- stevenwoo 8y ago
  Funny you mention that because yesterday I read that there are people who actually need to take aspirin. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/her-doctor-said-she-had-the-flu-it-took-years-to-find-the-real-and-strange-illness/2018/06/22/6d30a504-5862-11e8-858f-12becb4d6067_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/her-d... Long story, short - sensitivity to aspirin is problem that can be treated with exposure to aspirin in controlled setting to reduce extreme respiratory/allergy symptoms and continued daily aspirin afterwards for maintenance.
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    In the article, the woman is found to be allergic to NSAIDs. Meanwhile, others are prescribed Aspirin as a blood-thinner, to prevent recurrence of stroke.[0] [0] https://www.healthline.com/health-news/aspirin-heart-attack-stroke-050614 https://www.healthline.com/health-news/aspirin-heart-attack-...
    - stevenwoo 8y ago
      Yes but the treatment involved getting aspirin under a doctor's supervision to eliminate the sensitivity, unless I misremembered that. Prior to that she get sicker and sicker until she got pneumonia, and then a doctor who happened to be familiar with the aspirin syndrome from recent work elsewhere, suggested that as a diagnosis. Under the aspirin as therapeutic her life significantly improved.

I wonder if gut flora has more to do with absorption of the medicine than anything else.

by cozzyd 8y ago

I wonder if gut flora has more to do with absorption of the medicine than anything else.

Not just medicinal absorption, but even mental health directly. I have an educated hunch that we’re going to find a lot of answers in the coming years about how our treatment and abuse of our gut flora (the widespread use of broad spectrum antibiotics, Western/high sugar diets) is responsible for some chronic illnesses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5641835/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5641835/

vegardx 8y ago

Sure - there are plenty of things you can eat or drink to increase absorption and metabolism, one famous interaction is with grapefruit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit–drug_interactions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit–drug_interactions

LinuxBender 8y ago
Also garlic extract, curcumin and piperine (or bioperine), change how things are metabolized and processed in the liver. I take those and they amplify the effect of a medication I take, so I have to be extra careful with dosage.
- vegardx 8y ago
  On the flip side you can often get by with lower dosages, which in some cases mean less side effects.
  - LinuxBender 8y ago
    I concur. The medication was in fact causing nasty side effects and I was able to cut the dosage in half. I may even be able to ween myself off it entirely once I find the right combination of natural alternatives.
always_good 8y ago
I took a dose of acid so large that I had to curl up under my bed sheet for the two hours of the peak. Once the peak left and I could again walk around and brave the sunlight, I realized I was ravenously hungry. I grabbed a grapefruit and began devouring it. More than halfway through the fruit's succulent sectors, I felt overwhelmed again as if the peak had returned and had to seek darkness for another twenty minutes. Most drug interactions are hard to detect. Do I notice if the amphetamine is hitting 15% harder or weaker than usual? Or if I'm focusing 15% better or worse? Not really. Feels arbitrary to try and measure it. But re-crossing acid's threshold immediately after exiting it was the hard evidence I needed to believe in what always sounded like highschool folktale.

symlock 8y ago

Most antibiotics & modern medicine kills gut flora. It seems gut flora have more to do with proper nutritional absorption preventing the need of drugs to begin with. Consider the termite's inability to digest wood when their gut flora is destroyed. After all, no one has an aspirin deficiency.

cozzyd 8y ago
Sure but I'm getting at a different connection. In this particular study, where both groups are presumably taking antipsychotics, the probiotics might increase the effectiveness of the medicine they are already taking.
stevenwoo 8y ago
Funny you mention that because yesterday I read that there are people who actually need to take aspirin. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/her-doctor-said-she-had-the-flu-it-took-years-to-find-the-real-and-strange-illness/2018/06/22/6d30a504-5862-11e8-858f-12becb4d6067_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/her-d... Long story, short - sensitivity to aspirin is problem that can be treated with exposure to aspirin in controlled setting to reduce extreme respiratory/allergy symptoms and continued daily aspirin afterwards for maintenance.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  In the article, the woman is found to be allergic to NSAIDs. Meanwhile, others are prescribed Aspirin as a blood-thinner, to prevent recurrence of stroke.[0] [0] https://www.healthline.com/health-news/aspirin-heart-attack-stroke-050614 https://www.healthline.com/health-news/aspirin-heart-attack-...
  - stevenwoo 8y ago
    Yes but the treatment involved getting aspirin under a doctor's supervision to eliminate the sensitivity, unless I misremembered that. Prior to that she get sicker and sicker until she got pneumonia, and then a doctor who happened to be familiar with the aspirin syndrome from recent work elsewhere, suggested that as a diagnosis. Under the aspirin as therapeutic her life significantly improved.