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>But what if test and evaluation prove they are more reliable than tires filled with air? That won't happen. Just the fact that there are so many moving parts,

>But what if test and evaluation prove they are more reliable than tires filled with air? That won't happen. Just the fact that there are so many moving parts, controlled by microcontrolelrs, all with multiple independent fail points makes the idea that these are more reliably just absurd. The only question is, is the trade off of less reliability worth the advantage they provide. I don't see it, but maybe there are some applications which I'm not aware of were you really really need these abilities.

pasta 8y ago
Today's cars are so much more complex than old cars. Yet almost all of them are much more reliable than old cars. I don't think simple == reliable. A wheel made of solid wood is very simple. But the choice of material is poor. So there are a lot more factors involved to make something reliable. Getting stuck in the dirt might be more dangerous than a wheel with 1000 parts that gets you out of a nasty situation. Also: people assume that these new tires are going to replace all tires. But I think this is just a extra tool in a big toolkit.
- owlmirror 8y ago
  >Today's cars are so much more complex than old cars. Yet almost all of them are much more reliable than old cars. That's debatable. Evey person who owns a vintage car, pre electronics area will tell you that. I'm sure there are improvement in new cars which made them more reliable but not because of increased complexity. Maintainability of modern cars is a mess.
  - mulletbum 8y ago
    And maintainability is exactly the argument here. I do not know everything about these new tires, but like many people advocating here, I would rather just let the air out of my tires to get through the mud and re-inflate them then deal with the complexity that seems to be shown here.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Vintage cars are the survivors. Many cars where junked because they where not worth maintaining. Most modern cars can hit 100k miles with only regular and cheap maintenance. That's a huge step up.
- mcguire 8y ago
  One major difference, reliability-wise, of modern vehicles is electronic engine management---electronic fuel injection, electronic ignition, etc. These are, in fact, much simpler than their previous mechanical counterparts. Materials are better, as are engineering, but those are a wash complexity-wise. The major complexity increase has been antilock braking/traction control/stability control, all of which are (I hope!) designed to fail back to their older mechanical state. Their reliability has improved considerably, but my 2004 Corvette may need another brake controller rebuild and the brake controller on my 1995 BMW motorcycle's primary purpose seems to be to test for low-voltage conditions when I start the bike.
  - lsc 8y ago
    Eh, if we want to look at mechanical complexity increasing reliability, I'd point at exhaust valves. Have you owned a vehicle with valves you had to adjust? man, life was different before hydraulic lifters. Adding a fancy complex part means I don't have to fiddle about adjusting my valves every so often. (except on my motorcycle... Perhaps BMW of the '90s thought adjusting your valves built character or something.) And valve timing has gotten a lot more complex during my lifetime, at least last time I looked, was mechanical/analog. I came of age as VVT-I/VTECH variable valve timing was hitting the mass market, and I'm pretty sure those systems were not electronically actuated. (I can't say I really have looked at this sort of thing in the last decade, so they might be electronically actuated now) I'm sure there's a bunch of other mechanical bits that got both more complex and more reliable. I do like the example of fuel injectors vs. carburetors. The carburetors were a lot more mechanically complex, and quite difficult for a non-expert to get right. Fuel injectors are easy. a good example of just how much a simple micro-controller can make a system seem a lot more simple.

pasta 8y ago

Today's cars are so much more complex than old cars. Yet almost all of them are much more reliable than old cars. I don't think simple == reliable. A wheel made of solid wood is very simple. But the choice of material is poor. So there are a lot more factors involved to make something reliable. Getting stuck in the dirt might be more dangerous than a wheel with 1000 parts that gets you out of a nasty situation. Also: people assume that these new tires are going to replace all tires. But I think this is just a extra tool in a big toolkit.

owlmirror 8y ago
>Today's cars are so much more complex than old cars. Yet almost all of them are much more reliable than old cars. That's debatable. Evey person who owns a vintage car, pre electronics area will tell you that. I'm sure there are improvement in new cars which made them more reliable but not because of increased complexity. Maintainability of modern cars is a mess.
- mulletbum 8y ago
  And maintainability is exactly the argument here. I do not know everything about these new tires, but like many people advocating here, I would rather just let the air out of my tires to get through the mud and re-inflate them then deal with the complexity that seems to be shown here.
- Retric 8y ago
  Vintage cars are the survivors. Many cars where junked because they where not worth maintaining. Most modern cars can hit 100k miles with only regular and cheap maintenance. That's a huge step up.
mcguire 8y ago
One major difference, reliability-wise, of modern vehicles is electronic engine management---electronic fuel injection, electronic ignition, etc. These are, in fact, much simpler than their previous mechanical counterparts. Materials are better, as are engineering, but those are a wash complexity-wise. The major complexity increase has been antilock braking/traction control/stability control, all of which are (I hope!) designed to fail back to their older mechanical state. Their reliability has improved considerably, but my 2004 Corvette may need another brake controller rebuild and the brake controller on my 1995 BMW motorcycle's primary purpose seems to be to test for low-voltage conditions when I start the bike.
- lsc 8y ago
  Eh, if we want to look at mechanical complexity increasing reliability, I'd point at exhaust valves. Have you owned a vehicle with valves you had to adjust? man, life was different before hydraulic lifters. Adding a fancy complex part means I don't have to fiddle about adjusting my valves every so often. (except on my motorcycle... Perhaps BMW of the '90s thought adjusting your valves built character or something.) And valve timing has gotten a lot more complex during my lifetime, at least last time I looked, was mechanical/analog. I came of age as VVT-I/VTECH variable valve timing was hitting the mass market, and I'm pretty sure those systems were not electronically actuated. (I can't say I really have looked at this sort of thing in the last decade, so they might be electronically actuated now) I'm sure there's a bunch of other mechanical bits that got both more complex and more reliable. I do like the example of fuel injectors vs. carburetors. The carburetors were a lot more mechanically complex, and quite difficult for a non-expert to get right. Fuel injectors are easy. a good example of just how much a simple micro-controller can make a system seem a lot more simple.