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What does them being male have to do with anything? Are you implying that being male means that they must be reckless? Or that if they were female they would a

What does them being male have to do with anything? Are you implying that being male means that they must be reckless? Or that if they were female they would automatically be careful and gentle? Careful throwing around those negative stereotypes. EDIT: The driver is likely to be getting shot at. This is going to be an order of magnitude more important than slight gender differences.

psergeant 8y ago
> What does them being male have to do with anything? Being young and male correlates strongly with high testosterone, the effects of which you can Google for. Being young and male also correlates with higher incidences of road traffic accidents than most other demographics.
- asfdsfggtfd 8y ago
  But there are millions of young males in the US alone who are more careful than millions of young females. The effects of testosterone are far from as simple as you suggest. It tends to lead to higher competitiveness. This is not quite the same as recklessness. Meanwhile during normal usage the driver (of whatever gender) is likely to be getting shot at. This will tend to have a larger affect than their gender.
  - psergeant 8y ago
    > there are millions of young males in the US alone who are more careful than millions of young females Yes, and millions of young men in the US who are shorter than millions of young women. What’s your point? Young men are still disproportionately more likely to be in road traffic accidents. Re testosterone, the keywords you should be searching for are “risk taking behaviour”. I’m curious also what percentage of time you think the average military driver is being shot at is.
    - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
      > Young men are still disproportionately more likely to be in road traffic accidents. And in the military, given how e.g. the draft has never applied to women. Times are changing, but very, very slowly, and there will always be a gender disparity due to physical differences (e.g. strength, see also: almost every sport)
    - belorn 8y ago
      Looking at a few studies, the data is much more complex. For example, higher levels of circulating testosterone were associated with lower risk aversion among women (r = −0.1793; P = 0.01), but not among men (P = 0.11). However at comparably low concentrations of testosterone the gender difference in risk aversion disappeared, suggesting that testosterone has nonlinear effects on risk aversion regardless of gender. Or to make a summery of the summery of the study: there is an association of risk aversion when going from low levels of testosterone to very low levels, but "male with high testosterone" is not supported in that study as increased risk taking behavior vs males with normal levels of testosterone. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2741240/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2741240/)
    - asfdsfggtfd 8y ago
      Being shot is the most important time. This is when the wheel is going to be put under the most stress and it is most important that it performs...
  - 0xfeba 8y ago
    > Meanwhile during normal usage the driver (of whatever gender) is likely to be getting shot at. This will tend to have a larger affect than their gender. No -- being shot at is 0-2% of your time deployed. The rest is waiting around.
    - asfdsfggtfd 8y ago
      Being shot is the most important time. This is when the wheel is going to be put under the most stress...
jbjorge 8y ago
Weeeeell, we do have statistics for how civilians drive based on gender.
kbutler 8y ago
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/810853 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... "Motor vehicle crash fatalities were higher for males than females in all age groups, while the male population is equal to or less than the female population in all age groups." Particularly in the 21-30 age group, males had 3x the fatalities of females.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  That has little bearing on the cost of fielding/maintaining a vehicle. Fatalities are so rare they won't have an impact maintenance costs unless a sizeable chunk of your fleet is getting driven off a cliff. In my experience men and women tend to be about equally hard on things. The male outliers tend to create more maintenance work by being hard on chassis/suspension ("hold my beer and watch this"). The female outliers tend to create more maintenance work by keeping quiet about problems (usually having to do with fluids not in their proper places) for far too long. The most expensive driver is the kind that blindly follows directions/orders into a dumb situation. Source: Did fleet maintenance in high-school. edit: The words "in my experience" and "outliers" were used for a reason. I'm not claiming that all men will get a mini-bus airborne if given the opportunity or that all women will ignore an obvious puddle in a parking spot. I am stating what patterns I observed in the noteworthy cases of neglect. There's a million uncontrolled variables, maybe we were just a really scary maintenance department and none of the women wanted to talk to us or something. I'm not claiming that a bunch high school teachers a decade ago is a sample that accurately represents the rest of the population. Maybe the way buses were assigned to teams (pseudorandom) resulted in the observed failure pattern.
  - kbutler 8y ago
    I looked for statistics on maintenance cost of equipment for male vs female operators but didn't find any, just the un-documented assertions in https://www.equipmentworld.com/men-vs-women-who-are-the-better-heavy-equipment-operators/ https://www.equipmentworld.com/men-vs-women-who-are-the-bett... that basically say women are easier on equipment and specifically Attention to detail “I’ve always been impressed by how women take care of their machines” Smith says. “They keep them clean and don’t leave trash in the cabs. If there was a drop of oil coming out of a wheel or something small like that they let you know about it.” I'd be happy to look at any statistics you can provide that show "equally hard on things".
mcguire 8y ago
Note: the driver is unlikely to get shot at. Combat is actually rare.
- asfdsfggtfd 8y ago
  Being shot is the most important time. This is when the wheel is going to be put under the most stress and it is most important that it performs...

psergeant 8y ago

> What does them being male have to do with anything? Being young and male correlates strongly with high testosterone, the effects of which you can Google for. Being young and male also correlates with higher incidences of road traffic accidents than most other demographics.

asfdsfggtfd 8y ago
But there are millions of young males in the US alone who are more careful than millions of young females. The effects of testosterone are far from as simple as you suggest. It tends to lead to higher competitiveness. This is not quite the same as recklessness. Meanwhile during normal usage the driver (of whatever gender) is likely to be getting shot at. This will tend to have a larger affect than their gender.
- psergeant 8y ago
  > there are millions of young males in the US alone who are more careful than millions of young females Yes, and millions of young men in the US who are shorter than millions of young women. What’s your point? Young men are still disproportionately more likely to be in road traffic accidents. Re testosterone, the keywords you should be searching for are “risk taking behaviour”. I’m curious also what percentage of time you think the average military driver is being shot at is.
  - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
    > Young men are still disproportionately more likely to be in road traffic accidents. And in the military, given how e.g. the draft has never applied to women. Times are changing, but very, very slowly, and there will always be a gender disparity due to physical differences (e.g. strength, see also: almost every sport)
  - belorn 8y ago
    Looking at a few studies, the data is much more complex. For example, higher levels of circulating testosterone were associated with lower risk aversion among women (r = −0.1793; P = 0.01), but not among men (P = 0.11). However at comparably low concentrations of testosterone the gender difference in risk aversion disappeared, suggesting that testosterone has nonlinear effects on risk aversion regardless of gender. Or to make a summery of the summery of the study: there is an association of risk aversion when going from low levels of testosterone to very low levels, but "male with high testosterone" is not supported in that study as increased risk taking behavior vs males with normal levels of testosterone. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2741240/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2741240/)
  - asfdsfggtfd 8y ago
    Being shot is the most important time. This is when the wheel is going to be put under the most stress and it is most important that it performs...
- 0xfeba 8y ago
  > Meanwhile during normal usage the driver (of whatever gender) is likely to be getting shot at. This will tend to have a larger affect than their gender. No -- being shot at is 0-2% of your time deployed. The rest is waiting around.
  - asfdsfggtfd 8y ago
    Being shot is the most important time. This is when the wheel is going to be put under the most stress...

jbjorge 8y ago

Weeeeell, we do have statistics for how civilians drive based on gender.

kbutler 8y ago

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/810853 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... "Motor vehicle crash fatalities were higher for males than females in all age groups, while the male population is equal to or less than the female population in all age groups." Particularly in the 21-30 age group, males had 3x the fatalities of females.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
That has little bearing on the cost of fielding/maintaining a vehicle. Fatalities are so rare they won't have an impact maintenance costs unless a sizeable chunk of your fleet is getting driven off a cliff. In my experience men and women tend to be about equally hard on things. The male outliers tend to create more maintenance work by being hard on chassis/suspension ("hold my beer and watch this"). The female outliers tend to create more maintenance work by keeping quiet about problems (usually having to do with fluids not in their proper places) for far too long. The most expensive driver is the kind that blindly follows directions/orders into a dumb situation. Source: Did fleet maintenance in high-school. edit: The words "in my experience" and "outliers" were used for a reason. I'm not claiming that all men will get a mini-bus airborne if given the opportunity or that all women will ignore an obvious puddle in a parking spot. I am stating what patterns I observed in the noteworthy cases of neglect. There's a million uncontrolled variables, maybe we were just a really scary maintenance department and none of the women wanted to talk to us or something. I'm not claiming that a bunch high school teachers a decade ago is a sample that accurately represents the rest of the population. Maybe the way buses were assigned to teams (pseudorandom) resulted in the observed failure pattern.
- kbutler 8y ago
  I looked for statistics on maintenance cost of equipment for male vs female operators but didn't find any, just the un-documented assertions in https://www.equipmentworld.com/men-vs-women-who-are-the-better-heavy-equipment-operators/ https://www.equipmentworld.com/men-vs-women-who-are-the-bett... that basically say women are easier on equipment and specifically Attention to detail “I’ve always been impressed by how women take care of their machines” Smith says. “They keep them clean and don’t leave trash in the cabs. If there was a drop of oil coming out of a wheel or something small like that they let you know about it.” I'd be happy to look at any statistics you can provide that show "equally hard on things".

mcguire 8y ago

Note: the driver is unlikely to get shot at. Combat is actually rare.

asfdsfggtfd 8y ago
Being shot is the most important time. This is when the wheel is going to be put under the most stress and it is most important that it performs...