4 ms·

Is it considered normal for developers to work 60 hours a week in the USA? Because from my experiences in Australia and New Zealand, the majority of people wor

Is it considered normal for developers to work 60 hours a week in the USA? Because from my experiences in Australia and New Zealand, the majority of people work a 40 hour week. Everyone in my office has cleared out by 6 PM. $50k a year for working 40 hours a week in the midwest with its lower cost of living sounds like a fine deal. Those kinds of wages are fairly normal for software developers to earn internationally in other developed countries like Australia or Germany.

lotsofpulp 8y ago
$50k doesn't go far. Other countries have taxpayer funded healthcare (easily worth $10k per year), 1 year maternity and paternity leave, 6 weeks of vacation, and stronger employee protections (so that you actually are working 40 hours a week).
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  I guess you're right there. I earn the equivalent of US$55k (plus bonus) here in Australia (I could be earning more, long story) as a relatively junior developer. But then you have to add my annual leave entitlement, I get 4 weeks annual leave plus 2 weeks of public holidays (this country is so amazing, they give me a day off to watch the horse races). I hear that the standard in the USA is 2 weeks for a professional job. So I essentially get a 10% bonus in holiday pay. I also get 10 days of paid sick leave a year, and 3 days of bereavement leave for deaths of close relatives. I also have 9.5% superannuation on top of my salary, and I don't have to pay health insurance. For the luxury of (almost) free healthcare, my tax burden is only $700 more than it would be in Grand Rapids. According to a random website I found, I'd be paying $3,000 per year for health insurance in Michigan [1]. So my income, adjusted for superannuation and annual leave, is around $67k, add the health insurance to that and I'm at $70k. Apparently cost of living in San Fransisco is about 40% higher than Melbourne [2], so on that comparison I'm not doing poorly, but Melbourne is about 20% more expensive than Grand Rapids [3]. I'm always skeptical of Numbeo though, because the numbers are quite off. Basically though, I have US$20k (plus bonus) per year of disposable income after I pay for food, rent, and utilities. [1] https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-cost-of-health-insurance https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-cost-of-health-insuranc... [2] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States&city1=Melbourne&city2=San+Francisco%2C+CA https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... [3] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States&city1=Melbourne&city2=Grand+Rapids%2C+MI https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    Thanks for the numbers! The US is great if you're in the top 20%, especially if you're married to another in the top 20%, but otherwise I think most people would be better off in more equitable countries.

lotsofpulp 8y ago

$50k doesn't go far. Other countries have taxpayer funded healthcare (easily worth $10k per year), 1 year maternity and paternity leave, 6 weeks of vacation, and stronger employee protections (so that you actually are working 40 hours a week).

toomanybeersies 8y ago
I guess you're right there. I earn the equivalent of US$55k (plus bonus) here in Australia (I could be earning more, long story) as a relatively junior developer. But then you have to add my annual leave entitlement, I get 4 weeks annual leave plus 2 weeks of public holidays (this country is so amazing, they give me a day off to watch the horse races). I hear that the standard in the USA is 2 weeks for a professional job. So I essentially get a 10% bonus in holiday pay. I also get 10 days of paid sick leave a year, and 3 days of bereavement leave for deaths of close relatives. I also have 9.5% superannuation on top of my salary, and I don't have to pay health insurance. For the luxury of (almost) free healthcare, my tax burden is only $700 more than it would be in Grand Rapids. According to a random website I found, I'd be paying $3,000 per year for health insurance in Michigan [1]. So my income, adjusted for superannuation and annual leave, is around $67k, add the health insurance to that and I'm at $70k. Apparently cost of living in San Fransisco is about 40% higher than Melbourne [2], so on that comparison I'm not doing poorly, but Melbourne is about 20% more expensive than Grand Rapids [3]. I'm always skeptical of Numbeo though, because the numbers are quite off. Basically though, I have US$20k (plus bonus) per year of disposable income after I pay for food, rent, and utilities. [1] https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-cost-of-health-insurance https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-cost-of-health-insuranc... [2] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States&city1=Melbourne&city2=San+Francisco%2C+CA https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... [3] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States&city1=Melbourne&city2=Grand+Rapids%2C+MI https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  Thanks for the numbers! The US is great if you're in the top 20%, especially if you're married to another in the top 20%, but otherwise I think most people would be better off in more equitable countries.