5 ms·

Blockchain 2018 == NoSQL 2009

75 points by ognyankulev 8y ago

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
exabrial 8y ago
2006 ESB
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  2001 XML
  - welly 8y ago
    1998 DHTML
    - mianos 8y ago
      CORBA in the mid 90s. It was meant to be revolutionary.
      - ForHackernews 8y ago
        SOAP XML
        arisAlexis 8y ago
        bread
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
zzzcpan 8y ago
The difference is, governments were not actively trying to regulate or outlaw NoSQL, unlike cryptocurrencies, so NoSQL did manage to win eventually.
- sebazzz 8y ago
  Blockchain is of course much wider than cryptocurrencies and is the underlying technology. Blockchain is not being outlawed or discouraged, cryptocurrencies are. The point is that many companies have now a hammer (blockchain) and are seperately searching for a nail to use it with when all they have is screws.
  - pdpi 8y ago
    > Blockchain is of course much wider than cryptocurrencies This is a weird position. In the sense that the concept of a "blockchain" is not tied to cryptocurrencies, they're really just an old, well-understood data structure (e.g. the Git datamodel is fundamentally a blockchain, except generalised from a linked list to a DAG), and it's neither novel nor the focus of the current craze. In the sense of a decentralised distributed system, the only fully decentralised consensus layer I know of (Nakamoto consensus) literally depends on being used to host a cryptocurrency for its security guarantees.
  - arisAlexis 8y ago
    why are cryptocurrencies outlawed though is a mystery
- zzzzzzzza 8y ago
  but nosql didn't win? It did find some applications but it didn't really take over the industry or anything.
  - gaius 8y ago
    The best NoSQL database around is... Postgres
  - zzzcpan 8y ago
    Why do you believe they didn't? It was pretty impossible for them not to win since traditional systems cannot meet availability, latency, performance, scale requirements of applications in the cloud. You can clearly see a complete take over of large scale data storage for example.
thisisit 8y ago
Please don't go by the title. It is tongue in cheek but on reading the article will actually clear author's position. He is a supporter/worked on both technologies. Author's position is that "haters" brought NoSQL down. (Side note - With this usage of "haters" I wonder if "critic" will ever be seen outside a dictionary).And same is happening with Blockchain. Too many critics. NoSQL proponents should help Blockchain because of the shared camaraderie of being a technology which were/are criticized heavily. The main point of the article, like most in this space, is to re-define the word blockchain. What exactly is it? As per author it is byzantine fault tolerant state machine replication or BFTSMR. But there is not much to be said aside from the fact that "blockchain shouldn't be written off, just yet". While agree on not writing off blockchain yet, I can't help but ask if blockchain solved BFTSMR - it happened over 9 years ago. And people/companies dint jump in until 1-2 years ago. So most of these people/companies are just following the hype train.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  That argument for support due to situation is pretty spurious 'crank magnetism' level like suggesting scientests of gut bacteria's role in human health should support homeopathy because both are outside mainstream established practices. NoSQL actually works for a task and isn't being pushed by people trying to rerun every financial scam in history but with tokens on a computer.
- exabrial 8y ago
  Haters did not bring NoSQL down. Unrealistic promises brought NoSQL down, and people bought into it without ever actually benchmarking anything because everyone else was doing it too.
- vec 8y ago
  Except that (to use your acronym) BFTSMRs are fairly common and well understood. Git, to choose the obvious example, probably qualifies. The only thing that's new about blockchain is that it removes the requirement for a quorum of nodes in the network to trust one another. It achieves this solitary feature by means of forcing all updates to be as computationally inefficient as is economically feasable. Even then the security guarantees only hold as long as no single party can directly or indirectly control 51% of the network's collective computing power. Aside from the cryptocurrency use case, that's a fantastically unattractive feature profile. The more fully I grasp how much of blockchain's promises rest on proof of work as a cornerstone the less optimistic I am the technology will ever have any useful real world applications other than serving as the mcguffin in weird zero sum securities market games.
karmakaze 8y ago
The key difference is that NoSQL was being developed and used to solve specific issues with using traditional databases. They were implementations of solutions to problems. Blockchain is a solution in search of problems. By all means I support the research and development of blockchain technologies, but most applications are impractical thus far. The backlash against blockchain is a natural levelling mechanism combating the hyping and over-application of as yet inappropriate tech. As those in the know we should aim for the correct balance rather than blindly support it in hopes of future possible benefits. But as always, be informed and follow what you believe.
- tinus_hn 8y ago
  A blockchain can prove historic data. That’s quite useful in some situations but making money off of it is hard.
jchanimal 8y ago
The missing ingredient in the first wave of NoSQL was ACID transactions. (Disclosure, I was an early contributor to Apache CouchDB and Couchbase Mobile). Now that we have global ACID transaction algorithms like Google Spanner's and FaunaDB's (my current employer), mission critical apps are moving to NoSQL because multi-region consistency is safer and easier to deal with than RDBMS scale out. With ACID transactions, temporal storage, and object-level security, these distributed databases can beat blockchain at its own game by becoming a scalable runtime for smart contract applications, with all of the safety but with the flexibility of a database.
throwawayjava 8y ago
The big difference is that NoSQL (and XMl, and...) were always primarily developer tools and the hype/investment was always scoped more-or-less to that environment. My parents never asked me about NoSQL, and celebrities didn't sell/promote IPOs for companies built around XML processing libraries... The author hits on this in the end: > There are some very real things to worry about in association with Blockchain. Cryptocurrencies are not investment strategies, and are not going to have any of the promised power-distribution and -equalization effects they peddle while their value and cost fluctuate so wildly. Companies and VCs investing in NoSQL databases really were trying to creating business around developer tooling. But most blockchain companies aren't selling themselves as developer tooling companies. The rest of the comparison seems less important than that distinction.
arisAlexis 8y ago
nosql is a databse system, blockchain mission is to enable trustless immutable unstoppable appications and miney transmission worldwide to change society. comparing apples with hot dogs here

75 points by ognyankulev 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

exabrial 8y ago

2006 ESB

dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
2001 XML
- welly 8y ago
  1998 DHTML
  - mianos 8y ago
    CORBA in the mid 90s. It was meant to be revolutionary.
    - ForHackernews 8y ago
      SOAP XML
      - arisAlexis 8y ago
        bread
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

zzzcpan 8y ago

The difference is, governments were not actively trying to regulate or outlaw NoSQL, unlike cryptocurrencies, so NoSQL did manage to win eventually.

sebazzz 8y ago
Blockchain is of course much wider than cryptocurrencies and is the underlying technology. Blockchain is not being outlawed or discouraged, cryptocurrencies are. The point is that many companies have now a hammer (blockchain) and are seperately searching for a nail to use it with when all they have is screws.
- pdpi 8y ago
  > Blockchain is of course much wider than cryptocurrencies This is a weird position. In the sense that the concept of a "blockchain" is not tied to cryptocurrencies, they're really just an old, well-understood data structure (e.g. the Git datamodel is fundamentally a blockchain, except generalised from a linked list to a DAG), and it's neither novel nor the focus of the current craze. In the sense of a decentralised distributed system, the only fully decentralised consensus layer I know of (Nakamoto consensus) literally depends on being used to host a cryptocurrency for its security guarantees.
- arisAlexis 8y ago
  why are cryptocurrencies outlawed though is a mystery
zzzzzzzza 8y ago
but nosql didn't win? It did find some applications but it didn't really take over the industry or anything.
- gaius 8y ago
  The best NoSQL database around is... Postgres
- zzzcpan 8y ago
  Why do you believe they didn't? It was pretty impossible for them not to win since traditional systems cannot meet availability, latency, performance, scale requirements of applications in the cloud. You can clearly see a complete take over of large scale data storage for example.

thisisit 8y ago

Please don't go by the title. It is tongue in cheek but on reading the article will actually clear author's position. He is a supporter/worked on both technologies. Author's position is that "haters" brought NoSQL down. (Side note - With this usage of "haters" I wonder if "critic" will ever be seen outside a dictionary).And same is happening with Blockchain. Too many critics. NoSQL proponents should help Blockchain because of the shared camaraderie of being a technology which were/are criticized heavily. The main point of the article, like most in this space, is to re-define the word blockchain. What exactly is it? As per author it is byzantine fault tolerant state machine replication or BFTSMR. But there is not much to be said aside from the fact that "blockchain shouldn't be written off, just yet". While agree on not writing off blockchain yet, I can't help but ask if blockchain solved BFTSMR - it happened over 9 years ago. And people/companies dint jump in until 1-2 years ago. So most of these people/companies are just following the hype train.

Nasrudith 8y ago
That argument for support due to situation is pretty spurious 'crank magnetism' level like suggesting scientests of gut bacteria's role in human health should support homeopathy because both are outside mainstream established practices. NoSQL actually works for a task and isn't being pushed by people trying to rerun every financial scam in history but with tokens on a computer.
exabrial 8y ago
Haters did not bring NoSQL down. Unrealistic promises brought NoSQL down, and people bought into it without ever actually benchmarking anything because everyone else was doing it too.
vec 8y ago
Except that (to use your acronym) BFTSMRs are fairly common and well understood. Git, to choose the obvious example, probably qualifies. The only thing that's new about blockchain is that it removes the requirement for a quorum of nodes in the network to trust one another. It achieves this solitary feature by means of forcing all updates to be as computationally inefficient as is economically feasable. Even then the security guarantees only hold as long as no single party can directly or indirectly control 51% of the network's collective computing power. Aside from the cryptocurrency use case, that's a fantastically unattractive feature profile. The more fully I grasp how much of blockchain's promises rest on proof of work as a cornerstone the less optimistic I am the technology will ever have any useful real world applications other than serving as the mcguffin in weird zero sum securities market games.

karmakaze 8y ago

The key difference is that NoSQL was being developed and used to solve specific issues with using traditional databases. They were implementations of solutions to problems. Blockchain is a solution in search of problems. By all means I support the research and development of blockchain technologies, but most applications are impractical thus far. The backlash against blockchain is a natural levelling mechanism combating the hyping and over-application of as yet inappropriate tech. As those in the know we should aim for the correct balance rather than blindly support it in hopes of future possible benefits. But as always, be informed and follow what you believe.

tinus_hn 8y ago
A blockchain can prove historic data. That’s quite useful in some situations but making money off of it is hard.

jchanimal 8y ago

The missing ingredient in the first wave of NoSQL was ACID transactions. (Disclosure, I was an early contributor to Apache CouchDB and Couchbase Mobile). Now that we have global ACID transaction algorithms like Google Spanner's and FaunaDB's (my current employer), mission critical apps are moving to NoSQL because multi-region consistency is safer and easier to deal with than RDBMS scale out. With ACID transactions, temporal storage, and object-level security, these distributed databases can beat blockchain at its own game by becoming a scalable runtime for smart contract applications, with all of the safety but with the flexibility of a database.

throwawayjava 8y ago

The big difference is that NoSQL (and XMl, and...) were always primarily developer tools and the hype/investment was always scoped more-or-less to that environment. My parents never asked me about NoSQL, and celebrities didn't sell/promote IPOs for companies built around XML processing libraries... The author hits on this in the end: > There are some very real things to worry about in association with Blockchain. Cryptocurrencies are not investment strategies, and are not going to have any of the promised power-distribution and -equalization effects they peddle while their value and cost fluctuate so wildly. Companies and VCs investing in NoSQL databases really were trying to creating business around developer tooling. But most blockchain companies aren't selling themselves as developer tooling companies. The rest of the comparison seems less important than that distinction.

arisAlexis 8y ago

nosql is a databse system, blockchain mission is to enable trustless immutable unstoppable appications and miney transmission worldwide to change society. comparing apples with hot dogs here