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It's a bit rich for you to hold up Norway as a model for sensible attitudes towards punishment. This is the same country that sentenced a man who killed 77 peop

It's a bit rich for you to hold up Norway as a model for sensible attitudes towards punishment. This is the same country that sentenced a man who killed 77 people to 21 years in a resort-like prison. Regardless of your own philosophy, most people (even opponents of the death penalty) would view this sentence as so absurdly lenient that it verges on psychopathy towards the victims and their families. (I strongly disagree with the original commenter, by the way. I do think capital punishment is warranted in extreme cases.)

sgift 8y ago
Yeah. Isolation cells are "resort like" now. Maybe you want to check in into such a resort for a few years? I mean it seems to be a great deal according to you.
- iosDrone 8y ago
  If I had to be incarcerated, I would choose a Norwegian prison over almost any other country's.
cpfohl 8y ago
The goal is rehab in Norway. Not punishment. There's still a loss of freedom... But with the goal of changing the person's behavior. This from someone who is theoretically ok with capital punishment, but in practice opposed. I do not trust that the state gets the right people all the time. I also think it's too slow and burocratic a process to work as anything other than revenge.
- iosDrone 8y ago
  A few thoughts: (1.) In high profile federal cases executions occur relatively swiftly. The reason it's slow in many cases is due to all of the procedural safeguards that we have in place to protect defendants. (2.) People often dismiss retribution without explaining why it's not a valid basis for punishment. Personally, I believe Norway is morally bankrupt for viewing rehab as the only acceptable goal of punishment, as the Breivik case vividly illustrates. You may not find the Breivik sentence appalling, but you should recognize that you are in the minority. And if this guy is going to lecture Americans about the ethics of punishment, I have a right to criticize the Norwegian approach. (3.) Alex Kozinski made an interesting observation about the possibility of wrongfully executing someone: due to all of the procedural protections in place and all of the resources devoted to capital cases, the odds of being wrongfully executed are an order of magnitude lower than the odds of being wrongfully dealt a life sentence. Given how awful life imprisonment is, I totally reject the premise that capital punishment can only be justified if it is infallible.

sgift 8y ago

Yeah. Isolation cells are "resort like" now. Maybe you want to check in into such a resort for a few years? I mean it seems to be a great deal according to you.

iosDrone 8y ago
If I had to be incarcerated, I would choose a Norwegian prison over almost any other country's.

cpfohl 8y ago

The goal is rehab in Norway. Not punishment. There's still a loss of freedom... But with the goal of changing the person's behavior. This from someone who is theoretically ok with capital punishment, but in practice opposed. I do not trust that the state gets the right people all the time. I also think it's too slow and burocratic a process to work as anything other than revenge.

iosDrone 8y ago
A few thoughts: (1.) In high profile federal cases executions occur relatively swiftly. The reason it's slow in many cases is due to all of the procedural safeguards that we have in place to protect defendants. (2.) People often dismiss retribution without explaining why it's not a valid basis for punishment. Personally, I believe Norway is morally bankrupt for viewing rehab as the only acceptable goal of punishment, as the Breivik case vividly illustrates. You may not find the Breivik sentence appalling, but you should recognize that you are in the minority. And if this guy is going to lecture Americans about the ethics of punishment, I have a right to criticize the Norwegian approach. (3.) Alex Kozinski made an interesting observation about the possibility of wrongfully executing someone: due to all of the procedural protections in place and all of the resources devoted to capital cases, the odds of being wrongfully executed are an order of magnitude lower than the odds of being wrongfully dealt a life sentence. Given how awful life imprisonment is, I totally reject the premise that capital punishment can only be justified if it is infallible.