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>No marriage is perfect. Every couple fights sometimes, if both people are being real with each other, and if they're not, that's a huge problem in itself. Buy

>No marriage is perfect. Every couple fights sometimes, if both people are being real with each other, and if they're not, that's a huge problem in itself. Buying into this argument that "every couple fight sometimes" is why so many people never eliminate fights from their relationships, because they think it's normal and so never put the effort into bettering themselves and addressing the root causes of problems so that fights don't reoccur. It's much easier to treat fights as inevitable than work on improving one's own self-control, compassion and empathy.

rayiner 8y ago
You make an interesting point. Most people would for example never shout at a coworker, but people consider shouting in an argument with one's spouse fairly routine.
- scarface74 8y ago
  The stakes are lower at work and less (if at all) emotional at least for me. At the end of the day I really don’t care enough about a job to get upset. My job is just a paycheck. It’s purely transactional. My job is disposable. If my job causes me stress over a prolonged period of time, I can easily find another one without any regret. I haven’t invested anything emotionally into my job. My marriage on the other hand is different. I’m not saying that is an excuse for fighting unfairly or being hurtful. But my wife, my parents, and my (step)sons are the only people I have a deep emotional connection to that I won’t separate myself from awhile if they get on my nerves.
watwut 8y ago
The root cause of fight is that partners disagree over something that is important to both (likely related to some core value). The contributing factor is oftentimes stress, people are not able to be perfect under stress and sleep deprivation. Self-control and compassion don't make disagreement or bad feelings over important things disappear. They are still present. The "never fight" relationships (not just marriage, but also friendships) are either "we do things as separately as possible" or one of the two ceased to talk about his or her issues. The latter are then "I had not idea partner is unhappy and bam shock divorce" situations. The easiest way how to keep calm is not to care. It does not have to be screaming match, but if you never disagree about things like child raising, it is likely that one did checked out.
- logicchains 8y ago
  >The root cause of fight is that partners disagree over something that is important to both (likely related to some core value). If both partners disagree about a core value (and no mutually agreeable compromise is possible), the rational thing to do is either separate or for one party to accept the disagreement and move on. Repeatedly arguing about something serves absolutely no purpose, as there's extremely little chance of one party changing the other's mind this way (as is the case for angry arguments in general). As the Einstein quote goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again but expecting a different result. Stress and sleep deprivation indeed make this more difficult, but these are things that can be eliminated, if not easily: case study, people who aren't sleep derived or stressed (everybody's probably met at least one). >Self-control and compassion don't make disagreement or bad feelings over important things disappear. Compassion and empathy make it easier to see why other people feel/think about a matter in a particular way, and hence easier to sympathise with their point of view, which in turn reduces bad feelings about it. Self-control helps us not get angry about things we've accepted (if we haven't chosen to separate, and can't convince our partner to accept our view, then we've implicitly accepted them having their view), as we can make our brain see how silly/irrational it is to get angry about something we've agreed to, reducing bad feelings. > It does not have to be screaming match, but if you never disagree about things like child raising, it is likely that one did checked out. I agree disagreement is practically unavoidable, but a disagreement need not become a fight. Getting angry is a terrible way to resolve disagreements. People manage to disagree about things they care about at work without getting physically angry, as they know getting angry will probably harm their case.
  - watwut 8y ago
    Einstein was pretty shitty husband, don't take relationship advice from him. (He was good at physics.) I have seen enough angry collegues to know that people in fact don't manage to not be angry in work. Plenty of them angry without being abusive or toxic for the record, but clearly pissed and venting or yelling. Anger is feeling, it is not rational, compassion and listening don't stop it. Self control is about what you do, not what you feel. Repeated discussions make sense and can bring you two closer over time. Bit by bit. Can make you two learn to live with difference. That quote is not true. I am very glad I did not divorced first time serious difference arose.
justwalt 8y ago
Your post rings very true for me. I’ve always preferred a more relaxed and methodical approach to “fights,” which makes them more like solution focused discussions, and my most recent ex seemed to expect to scream at each other before we could get to the bottom of the issue. It reminded me of the Monty Python bartering sketch. Why cause hurt if you both want to solve a problem?
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  I agree with you and I do my best to approach things as communication about a problem, not fighting per se, but a lot of people have life experiences of various sorts that cause them have big feels about various issues and to expect to be crapped on, no matter how they handle it. This means if you are really sincere and decent, you will frequently find yourself paying for past relationships, and not necessarily just romantic ones.
aantix 8y ago
>improving one's own self-control On the flip-side, this is also just masquerading behind the sentiment "I shouldn't say that". Feelings will be expressed whether you like it or not, so it's better to say "I'm fucking mad!" about this than to have an argument four hours later about who doesn't put the cap on the toothpaste back on properly.

rayiner 8y ago

You make an interesting point. Most people would for example never shout at a coworker, but people consider shouting in an argument with one's spouse fairly routine.

scarface74 8y ago
The stakes are lower at work and less (if at all) emotional at least for me. At the end of the day I really don’t care enough about a job to get upset. My job is just a paycheck. It’s purely transactional. My job is disposable. If my job causes me stress over a prolonged period of time, I can easily find another one without any regret. I haven’t invested anything emotionally into my job. My marriage on the other hand is different. I’m not saying that is an excuse for fighting unfairly or being hurtful. But my wife, my parents, and my (step)sons are the only people I have a deep emotional connection to that I won’t separate myself from awhile if they get on my nerves.

watwut 8y ago

The root cause of fight is that partners disagree over something that is important to both (likely related to some core value). The contributing factor is oftentimes stress, people are not able to be perfect under stress and sleep deprivation. Self-control and compassion don't make disagreement or bad feelings over important things disappear. They are still present. The "never fight" relationships (not just marriage, but also friendships) are either "we do things as separately as possible" or one of the two ceased to talk about his or her issues. The latter are then "I had not idea partner is unhappy and bam shock divorce" situations. The easiest way how to keep calm is not to care. It does not have to be screaming match, but if you never disagree about things like child raising, it is likely that one did checked out.

logicchains 8y ago
>The root cause of fight is that partners disagree over something that is important to both (likely related to some core value). If both partners disagree about a core value (and no mutually agreeable compromise is possible), the rational thing to do is either separate or for one party to accept the disagreement and move on. Repeatedly arguing about something serves absolutely no purpose, as there's extremely little chance of one party changing the other's mind this way (as is the case for angry arguments in general). As the Einstein quote goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again but expecting a different result. Stress and sleep deprivation indeed make this more difficult, but these are things that can be eliminated, if not easily: case study, people who aren't sleep derived or stressed (everybody's probably met at least one). >Self-control and compassion don't make disagreement or bad feelings over important things disappear. Compassion and empathy make it easier to see why other people feel/think about a matter in a particular way, and hence easier to sympathise with their point of view, which in turn reduces bad feelings about it. Self-control helps us not get angry about things we've accepted (if we haven't chosen to separate, and can't convince our partner to accept our view, then we've implicitly accepted them having their view), as we can make our brain see how silly/irrational it is to get angry about something we've agreed to, reducing bad feelings. > It does not have to be screaming match, but if you never disagree about things like child raising, it is likely that one did checked out. I agree disagreement is practically unavoidable, but a disagreement need not become a fight. Getting angry is a terrible way to resolve disagreements. People manage to disagree about things they care about at work without getting physically angry, as they know getting angry will probably harm their case.
- watwut 8y ago
  Einstein was pretty shitty husband, don't take relationship advice from him. (He was good at physics.) I have seen enough angry collegues to know that people in fact don't manage to not be angry in work. Plenty of them angry without being abusive or toxic for the record, but clearly pissed and venting or yelling. Anger is feeling, it is not rational, compassion and listening don't stop it. Self control is about what you do, not what you feel. Repeated discussions make sense and can bring you two closer over time. Bit by bit. Can make you two learn to live with difference. That quote is not true. I am very glad I did not divorced first time serious difference arose.

justwalt 8y ago

Your post rings very true for me. I’ve always preferred a more relaxed and methodical approach to “fights,” which makes them more like solution focused discussions, and my most recent ex seemed to expect to scream at each other before we could get to the bottom of the issue. It reminded me of the Monty Python bartering sketch. Why cause hurt if you both want to solve a problem?

DoreenMichele 8y ago
I agree with you and I do my best to approach things as communication about a problem, not fighting per se, but a lot of people have life experiences of various sorts that cause them have big feels about various issues and to expect to be crapped on, no matter how they handle it. This means if you are really sincere and decent, you will frequently find yourself paying for past relationships, and not necessarily just romantic ones.

aantix 8y ago

>improving one's own self-control On the flip-side, this is also just masquerading behind the sentiment "I shouldn't say that". Feelings will be expressed whether you like it or not, so it's better to say "I'm fucking mad!" about this than to have an argument four hours later about who doesn't put the cap on the toothpaste back on properly.