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Regarding Civilization or savagery, which is this: Then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright calmly asserting that U.S. policy objectives were worth the sacrif

by jacobr 8y ago

Regarding Civilization or savagery, which is this: Then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright calmly asserting that U.S. policy objectives were worth the sacrifice of half a million Iraqi children: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8# https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8#

sonnyblarney 8y ago
The term 'sacrifice' is used in different contexts. A 'sacrifice' to a god for whatever reason is a literal sacrifice, talking about the 'cost of war' in terms of 'sacrifice' is a metaphor.
- XalvinX 8y ago
  Since the American invasion of Iraq doesn't remotely fit the definition of "a war" I think they were, in fact, sacrifices...
- Cpoll 8y ago
  Only because we now know that human sacrifices don't please the gods and improve our fortunes. Otherwise, it breaks down in exactly the same way: We kill some children, but we're okay with that, because it will benefit us. If it's a metaphor, it can only be because there's no sacrifice at all, the death of non-citizens don't factor into the cost-benefit analysis.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    "the death of non-citizens don't factor into the cost-benefit analysis" This is absolutely false.
horseLOGIC 8y ago
It can easily be "worth it" if by sacrificing half a million children you get to save half a million and one child. Despite what you might want to believe, Mrs. Albright is neither stupid nor evil. It's also really an unfair question because you don't get to see the result of your policy before enacting it. Moreover, those deaths probably never happened, at least not in those numbers, and they were used as an argument for war: https://psmag.com/news/the-iraq-sanctions-myth-56433 https://psmag.com/news/the-iraq-sanctions-myth-56433 Like the supposed 1 million deaths from the Second Iraq War, those numbers are based on surveys which are highly flawed. Further, the poor perception of the Second Iraq War supported the lack of action in Syria under the Obama administration. Nobody knows how many lives could've saved (and how many sacrificed) if there had been an early intervention in Syria.

by jacobr 8y ago

sonnyblarney 8y ago

The term 'sacrifice' is used in different contexts. A 'sacrifice' to a god for whatever reason is a literal sacrifice, talking about the 'cost of war' in terms of 'sacrifice' is a metaphor.

XalvinX 8y ago
Since the American invasion of Iraq doesn't remotely fit the definition of "a war" I think they were, in fact, sacrifices...
Cpoll 8y ago
Only because we now know that human sacrifices don't please the gods and improve our fortunes. Otherwise, it breaks down in exactly the same way: We kill some children, but we're okay with that, because it will benefit us. If it's a metaphor, it can only be because there's no sacrifice at all, the death of non-citizens don't factor into the cost-benefit analysis.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  "the death of non-citizens don't factor into the cost-benefit analysis" This is absolutely false.

horseLOGIC 8y ago

It can easily be "worth it" if by sacrificing half a million children you get to save half a million and one child. Despite what you might want to believe, Mrs. Albright is neither stupid nor evil. It's also really an unfair question because you don't get to see the result of your policy before enacting it. Moreover, those deaths probably never happened, at least not in those numbers, and they were used as an argument for war: https://psmag.com/news/the-iraq-sanctions-myth-56433 https://psmag.com/news/the-iraq-sanctions-myth-56433 Like the supposed 1 million deaths from the Second Iraq War, those numbers are based on surveys which are highly flawed. Further, the poor perception of the Second Iraq War supported the lack of action in Syria under the Obama administration. Nobody knows how many lives could've saved (and how many sacrificed) if there had been an early intervention in Syria.