5 ms·

I don't get this argument. I just went to CVS and bought their white labeled lotion and some band aids, that were nearly identical in ingredients to the brande

by dmoy 8y ago

I don't get this argument. I just went to CVS and bought their white labeled lotion and some band aids, that were nearly identical in ingredients to the branded stuff sitting right next to it on the shelf. My soap at home is similarly target's in house stuff. Half the things I buy from Costco are Kirkland. Why do I do it? Because it's like half the price. Just like buying say AmazonBasics batteries vs Energizer.

subpixel 8y ago
The argument isn't that Amazon is making things hard on consumers. It's that they are killing brands on a battlefield they control absolutely. Think of it from the brand perspective. CVS pays you to stock their product on their shelves, so while they compete with you, they also send you money every month regardless. On the other hand, you have to pay Amazon to include your products in their catalog. So while they compete with you, you pay them for the privilege. And everything you do to innovate, they steal.
- dmoy 8y ago
  Right I see the argument, but I don't get why it's a valid argument. I just don't get why this is news. Every retailer I've shopped at in the last year does this.
- hakfoo 8y ago
  I find, across the board, Amazon often feels like their incentives don't align with those of a customer. They're always trying to push Prime (and to a lesser extent their video and music service) which represents extra clicks to sale. It's a significant auto-renewing commitment, not a $5 casual impulse add-on-- repeatedly dangling it in front of me and hoping I misclick into it borders on a dark pattern. I'd love to see a big one-click "I am not interested do not bother me further" button. Everything about their checkout funnel is contrary to modern best practices. Fields are oddly arranged compared with most other ecommerce sites, and once you reach a certain point, the normal navigation disappears. I guess this is designed to trap the user with no way out but purchase, but it makes it harder to compare items, especially when you're trying to find out on shipping (see below). Shipping is a mess to deal with. "You need to spend $25 for free shipping, but these items don't count". "These items can ONLY be purchased with an order of other items that hit the free-shipping threshold." "These items can only be purchased with Prime." There's no easy "estimate shipping" button without going several pages into checkout. These sort of complexities probably are engineered to steer customers towards buying the items fulfilled by them to avoid the pitfalls. I'd also wonder if their brands "accidentally" do well because of how bad their product categorization is. Nobody else is selling AmazonBasics products, so the single listing gets all the ratings and sales volume. Meanwhile, the name brand has 30 slightly different poorly arranged listings all overlapped.
  - autokad 8y ago
    I'm an absolute luddite when it comes to shopping online, but I found Amazon to be one of the easiest. i throw lots of stuff in my cart, and then pull things away at the end based off shipping cost/time. I have had shopping carts open for years. I also like the wish list and buy again options. When I order an air purifier, amazon reminds me I might need to buy extra filters, stuff like that. many times i have ordered stuff from websites, and key components that make what i ordered useful were not part of the order.
  - manigandham 8y ago
    > I find, across the board, Amazon often feels like their incentives don't align with those of a customer. That's a strange interpretation. Their checkout flow is as little as 1 click and their incredible growth is from only caring about the customer and delivering value better than anyone else. Many people do almost all of their shopping on Amazon because it's fast, easy, and reliable, even if the prices aren't the best.
- abtinf 8y ago
  > CVS pays you to stock their product on their shelves Most retail works exactly the opposite - the manufacturer pays the retailer significant fees for shelf space.
  - nsnick 8y ago
    There is even a word for it "slotting fees"
    - subpixel 8y ago
      Yes, but even accounting for those fees, retailers still pay brands to stock their products. Meanwhile on Amazon, brands pay Amazon to feature their products. Then they pay Amazon to stock/fulfill their products (FBO). Then they pay Amazon to feature their products (promotions). Amazon is in a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose position vis-a-vis brands.
hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
I think the example given with Alexa voice purchases ("Buy batteries" only results in AmazomBasics batteries being purchased) is a pretty major difference that makes the in-store comparison not really a great analogy. Every CVS I've been to always has the CVS brand pretty much right next to the major label brand - they're equally accessible. If I ask a store worker where the shampoo is, he'll point me to the shampoo aisle where the CVS and major label brands are side-by-side. Contrast that with Amazon, where (at least for me) searching for "batteries" returns AmazonBasics in the top non-sponsored position.
- autokad 8y ago
  IN healthcare, when I order a prescription they default the knock off brands. I honestly dont have a problem with Alexa defaulting to the cheapest option with near equal quality
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Does it always default to the cheapest, or always to theirs?
  - arkades 8y ago
    In healthcare the pharmaceutical shoppe gives you what your insurer defaults to - the cheapest. Neither the insurer nor the pharmaceutical shoppe are manufacturing the drug (neither the brand name nor the knock-off). Amazon - the shoppe - is the one making the decision, and it’s decision is to default to the item that Amazon manufactures. In one instance the payor is choosing a manufacturer and the shoppe is fulfilling the order - all manufacturers are on equal footing; in the other the shoppe is both choosing the manufacturer (itself) and fulfilling, while disadvantaging the other manufacturers, and making the decision without asking the payor. I hope you see how these situations are in no way analogous, and only superficially related in that the customer ends up with a knock-off.
petepete 8y ago
A side note, the AmazonBasics rechargeable batteries are excellent. I believe they are rebranded (or something very similar to) Panasonic Eneloops.
- lozenge 8y ago
  That's funny, my AmazonBasics USB power bank was recalled. And I bought it to avoid all the knock-off crap you see on Amazon...
  - zorked 8y ago
    Knockoff crap is never recalled...
rainbowmverse 8y ago
I bought some AmazonBasics AAs when I discovered they're relabeled Eneloops at a steep discount. Years on, they still work great.

by dmoy 8y ago

subpixel 8y ago

The argument isn't that Amazon is making things hard on consumers. It's that they are killing brands on a battlefield they control absolutely. Think of it from the brand perspective. CVS pays you to stock their product on their shelves, so while they compete with you, they also send you money every month regardless. On the other hand, you have to pay Amazon to include your products in their catalog. So while they compete with you, you pay them for the privilege. And everything you do to innovate, they steal.

dmoy 8y ago
Right I see the argument, but I don't get why it's a valid argument. I just don't get why this is news. Every retailer I've shopped at in the last year does this.
hakfoo 8y ago
I find, across the board, Amazon often feels like their incentives don't align with those of a customer. They're always trying to push Prime (and to a lesser extent their video and music service) which represents extra clicks to sale. It's a significant auto-renewing commitment, not a $5 casual impulse add-on-- repeatedly dangling it in front of me and hoping I misclick into it borders on a dark pattern. I'd love to see a big one-click "I am not interested do not bother me further" button. Everything about their checkout funnel is contrary to modern best practices. Fields are oddly arranged compared with most other ecommerce sites, and once you reach a certain point, the normal navigation disappears. I guess this is designed to trap the user with no way out but purchase, but it makes it harder to compare items, especially when you're trying to find out on shipping (see below). Shipping is a mess to deal with. "You need to spend $25 for free shipping, but these items don't count". "These items can ONLY be purchased with an order of other items that hit the free-shipping threshold." "These items can only be purchased with Prime." There's no easy "estimate shipping" button without going several pages into checkout. These sort of complexities probably are engineered to steer customers towards buying the items fulfilled by them to avoid the pitfalls. I'd also wonder if their brands "accidentally" do well because of how bad their product categorization is. Nobody else is selling AmazonBasics products, so the single listing gets all the ratings and sales volume. Meanwhile, the name brand has 30 slightly different poorly arranged listings all overlapped.
- autokad 8y ago
  I'm an absolute luddite when it comes to shopping online, but I found Amazon to be one of the easiest. i throw lots of stuff in my cart, and then pull things away at the end based off shipping cost/time. I have had shopping carts open for years. I also like the wish list and buy again options. When I order an air purifier, amazon reminds me I might need to buy extra filters, stuff like that. many times i have ordered stuff from websites, and key components that make what i ordered useful were not part of the order.
- manigandham 8y ago
  > I find, across the board, Amazon often feels like their incentives don't align with those of a customer. That's a strange interpretation. Their checkout flow is as little as 1 click and their incredible growth is from only caring about the customer and delivering value better than anyone else. Many people do almost all of their shopping on Amazon because it's fast, easy, and reliable, even if the prices aren't the best.
abtinf 8y ago
> CVS pays you to stock their product on their shelves Most retail works exactly the opposite - the manufacturer pays the retailer significant fees for shelf space.
- nsnick 8y ago
  There is even a word for it "slotting fees"
  - subpixel 8y ago
    Yes, but even accounting for those fees, retailers still pay brands to stock their products. Meanwhile on Amazon, brands pay Amazon to feature their products. Then they pay Amazon to stock/fulfill their products (FBO). Then they pay Amazon to feature their products (promotions). Amazon is in a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose position vis-a-vis brands.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

I think the example given with Alexa voice purchases ("Buy batteries" only results in AmazomBasics batteries being purchased) is a pretty major difference that makes the in-store comparison not really a great analogy. Every CVS I've been to always has the CVS brand pretty much right next to the major label brand - they're equally accessible. If I ask a store worker where the shampoo is, he'll point me to the shampoo aisle where the CVS and major label brands are side-by-side. Contrast that with Amazon, where (at least for me) searching for "batteries" returns AmazonBasics in the top non-sponsored position.

autokad 8y ago
IN healthcare, when I order a prescription they default the knock off brands. I honestly dont have a problem with Alexa defaulting to the cheapest option with near equal quality
- icebraining 8y ago
  Does it always default to the cheapest, or always to theirs?
- arkades 8y ago
  In healthcare the pharmaceutical shoppe gives you what your insurer defaults to - the cheapest. Neither the insurer nor the pharmaceutical shoppe are manufacturing the drug (neither the brand name nor the knock-off). Amazon - the shoppe - is the one making the decision, and it’s decision is to default to the item that Amazon manufactures. In one instance the payor is choosing a manufacturer and the shoppe is fulfilling the order - all manufacturers are on equal footing; in the other the shoppe is both choosing the manufacturer (itself) and fulfilling, while disadvantaging the other manufacturers, and making the decision without asking the payor. I hope you see how these situations are in no way analogous, and only superficially related in that the customer ends up with a knock-off.

petepete 8y ago

A side note, the AmazonBasics rechargeable batteries are excellent. I believe they are rebranded (or something very similar to) Panasonic Eneloops.

lozenge 8y ago
That's funny, my AmazonBasics USB power bank was recalled. And I bought it to avoid all the knock-off crap you see on Amazon...
- zorked 8y ago
  Knockoff crap is never recalled...

rainbowmverse 8y ago

I bought some AmazonBasics AAs when I discovered they're relabeled Eneloops at a steep discount. Years on, they still work great.