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I live in literally the most diverse area of the US, and no, people from South America and Ohio really aren't different at all. You could swap out our actual P

I live in literally the most diverse area of the US, and no, people from South America and Ohio really aren't different at all. You could swap out our actual Peruvian home builders for someone in Ohio (if they wanted the job) and it would be the same. Like I said, there is no excuse. Cultural differences aren't big enough to warrant borders and impose trade restrictions.

ipsocannibal 8y ago
Interesting. Let put this into action. How about you try to hitchhike across western europe or japan and document your experences. Then try to hitchhike across the middle east or subsaharan africa. Let me know how that one goes for you. I hope you don't encounter any differences.
dna_polymerase 8y ago
> I live in literally the most diverse area of the US, and no, people from South America and Ohio really aren't different at all. Maybe you should leave your echo chamber every once in a while. I also live in the most diverse area of my nation, and while it is all fun and games when I am around well educated, well mannered people from different countries it is less fun when I have to cross the street in a diverse area with less high educational standards. The former by the way are already eligible to cross the border at any time (because they are legally able to obtain a visa) the latter aren't and really shouldn't. That said, the cultural differences in the Americas might be less grave than Europe and the Middle East, or the U.S. and the Middle East for example. It really boils down to religion and education (in most cases), both of which are pretty similar in the Americas.
- krapp 8y ago
  People could (and probably would) still live in communities with common cultural and religious ties, even in a world without national borders. And, in this world of international borders, people from disparate backgrounds manage to immigrate and integrate just fine. National boundaries don't really map to the borders of cultural and religious identity (as can be readily seen in the Middle East), so your argument here (which seems to be that the former is needed to preserve the latter) doesn't seem well supported.
  - dna_polymerase 8y ago
    > National boundaries don't really map to the borders of cultural and religious identity (as can be readily seen in the Middle East), so your argument here [..] doesn't seem well supported. That is because we already let immigration happen. And it supports my thesis really well, as this immigration lead to severe problems amongst groups of different cultural backgrounds. > People could (and probably would) still live in communities with common cultural and religious ties, even in a world without national borders.And, in this world of international borders, people from disparate backgrounds manage to immigrate and integrate just fine. Those groups living clustered together isn't integration but segregation.
    - krapp 8y ago
      >That is because we already let immigration happen It's also because national boundaries tend to be more about resource allocation and political necessity than the preservation of culture or religion. Look at the problems caused by the British Empire carving up the Middle East after World War 1. Now perhaps you might argue the national borders there should correspond more to local tribal and cultural identity (and maybe they should) but the point is they don't, and they rarely do anywhere. >And it supports my thesis really well, as this immigration lead to severe problems amongst groups of different cultural backgrounds. At one time, Americans felt that Irish and Chinese immigrants could never properly integrate... to say nothing about free Africans. Yet all of those groups have been unambiguously integrated. I work around Indian and Middle Eastern immigrants. Hindus and Muslims. It's remarkable how unremarkable they are given how incompatible "Western culture" is supposed to be to them. There aren't always "severe problems" with immigrants from different cultural backgrounds. Sometimes there are, yes, but it isn't a rule of nature. >Those groups living clustered together isn't integration but segregation. Those aren't boolean states. Someone can maintain a connection to their heritage while still being a part of greater society.
      - dna_polymerase 8y ago
        > At one time, Americans felt that Irish and Chinese immigrants could never properly integrate... to say nothing about free Africans. Yet all of those groups have been unambiguously integrated. The Irish are not so different from the people that made up America back then. The Chinese who come here flee a communist/socialist regime, they are more than happy to assimilate to capitalism and the American way of life. > [..] There aren't always "severe problems" with immigrants from different cultural backgrounds. Sometimes there are, yes, but it isn't a rule of nature. As I acknowledged above. > Those aren't boolean states. Someone can maintain a connection to their heritage while still being a part of greater society. Right, but living in segregated communities inside another country is not maintaining a connection to heritage but simply not integrating.
- mcbits 8y ago
  The cultural differences between urban, suburban, and rural US are at least as great as the overall differences between the US and other countries, and I suspect you'd be weighing every word carefully if you tried making those same arguments for strong borders to keep the city people out of the suburbs or vice versa.
- albertgoeswoof 8y ago
  Aren’t you proving the GPs point? Around people with the same education your experience is fine, so get everyone in the same schools and we’re good.

ipsocannibal 8y ago

Interesting. Let put this into action. How about you try to hitchhike across western europe or japan and document your experences. Then try to hitchhike across the middle east or subsaharan africa. Let me know how that one goes for you. I hope you don't encounter any differences.

dna_polymerase 8y ago

> I live in literally the most diverse area of the US, and no, people from South America and Ohio really aren't different at all. Maybe you should leave your echo chamber every once in a while. I also live in the most diverse area of my nation, and while it is all fun and games when I am around well educated, well mannered people from different countries it is less fun when I have to cross the street in a diverse area with less high educational standards. The former by the way are already eligible to cross the border at any time (because they are legally able to obtain a visa) the latter aren't and really shouldn't. That said, the cultural differences in the Americas might be less grave than Europe and the Middle East, or the U.S. and the Middle East for example. It really boils down to religion and education (in most cases), both of which are pretty similar in the Americas.

krapp 8y ago
People could (and probably would) still live in communities with common cultural and religious ties, even in a world without national borders. And, in this world of international borders, people from disparate backgrounds manage to immigrate and integrate just fine. National boundaries don't really map to the borders of cultural and religious identity (as can be readily seen in the Middle East), so your argument here (which seems to be that the former is needed to preserve the latter) doesn't seem well supported.
- dna_polymerase 8y ago
  > National boundaries don't really map to the borders of cultural and religious identity (as can be readily seen in the Middle East), so your argument here [..] doesn't seem well supported. That is because we already let immigration happen. And it supports my thesis really well, as this immigration lead to severe problems amongst groups of different cultural backgrounds. > People could (and probably would) still live in communities with common cultural and religious ties, even in a world without national borders.And, in this world of international borders, people from disparate backgrounds manage to immigrate and integrate just fine. Those groups living clustered together isn't integration but segregation.
  - krapp 8y ago
    >That is because we already let immigration happen It's also because national boundaries tend to be more about resource allocation and political necessity than the preservation of culture or religion. Look at the problems caused by the British Empire carving up the Middle East after World War 1. Now perhaps you might argue the national borders there should correspond more to local tribal and cultural identity (and maybe they should) but the point is they don't, and they rarely do anywhere. >And it supports my thesis really well, as this immigration lead to severe problems amongst groups of different cultural backgrounds. At one time, Americans felt that Irish and Chinese immigrants could never properly integrate... to say nothing about free Africans. Yet all of those groups have been unambiguously integrated. I work around Indian and Middle Eastern immigrants. Hindus and Muslims. It's remarkable how unremarkable they are given how incompatible "Western culture" is supposed to be to them. There aren't always "severe problems" with immigrants from different cultural backgrounds. Sometimes there are, yes, but it isn't a rule of nature. >Those groups living clustered together isn't integration but segregation. Those aren't boolean states. Someone can maintain a connection to their heritage while still being a part of greater society.
    - dna_polymerase 8y ago
      > At one time, Americans felt that Irish and Chinese immigrants could never properly integrate... to say nothing about free Africans. Yet all of those groups have been unambiguously integrated. The Irish are not so different from the people that made up America back then. The Chinese who come here flee a communist/socialist regime, they are more than happy to assimilate to capitalism and the American way of life. > [..] There aren't always "severe problems" with immigrants from different cultural backgrounds. Sometimes there are, yes, but it isn't a rule of nature. As I acknowledged above. > Those aren't boolean states. Someone can maintain a connection to their heritage while still being a part of greater society. Right, but living in segregated communities inside another country is not maintaining a connection to heritage but simply not integrating.
mcbits 8y ago
The cultural differences between urban, suburban, and rural US are at least as great as the overall differences between the US and other countries, and I suspect you'd be weighing every word carefully if you tried making those same arguments for strong borders to keep the city people out of the suburbs or vice versa.
albertgoeswoof 8y ago
Aren’t you proving the GPs point? Around people with the same education your experience is fine, so get everyone in the same schools and we’re good.